Martha Pennel shares how Sacred Grounds fosters authentic community in Soho through radical hospitality, deep listening, and a flexible, faith-rooted coffee space.
Show notes:
- Guest: Martha Pennel
- Community: Sacred Grounds at St Annes, Soho
- Episode host: Mark Robinson – fx Comms
- Join the discussion on our Facebook group
This is an automated transcript and may not be fully accurate.
00:00:02:12 – 00:00:22:20
Speaker 1
This is the Mission Shape podcast. These are the stories of ordinary people walking with God and forming new Christian communities to fit their place, their people, and their purpose.
00:00:22:22 – 00:00:26:20
Speaker 1
Good morning Martha. Welcome to the podcast. How you doing?
00:00:26:22 – 00:00:28:08
Speaker 2
I’m very good. Thanks, Mark.
00:00:28:11 – 00:00:44:05
Speaker 1
So for an transparency, I’m going to say to our audience and Martha, this is an episode I’ve been looking forward to because Martha and I have known each other for a long time. And I was trying to think how how long is it?
00:00:44:07 – 00:00:45:09
Speaker 2
Oh, gosh.
00:00:45:11 – 00:00:46:07
Speaker 1
It’s many years.
00:00:46:11 – 00:00:48:06
Speaker 2
We many years. Same.
00:00:48:09 – 00:01:02:16
Speaker 1
The same church. So the church. I came back to faith in a church called Oak Tree in Acton, west London, and you and your husband Rob started coming there, and you guys went off and, like, were part of a community for a while when you.
00:01:02:18 – 00:01:03:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, we were out.
00:01:04:00 – 00:01:23:05
Speaker 1
And all that anyway, with our history is not going. So Martha, why don’t you tell tell us and yeah, first of all tell us a little bit about yourself and your your your journey, who you are, what you’re about. And, and and then maybe tell us about the community that you’re involved in.
00:01:23:07 – 00:01:54:21
Speaker 2
Okay. I’m Martha. Hello. I’m married to Rob. And, we’ve got two primary school age children, and I’ve lived in London all my life. As Rob, I was brought up in a church family, Baptist church. I studied for the theology, uni, King’s College. So none of the game. But I’ve always been in church families, but I’ve always been on kind of, oh, of church communities.
00:01:54:23 – 00:02:19:12
Speaker 2
But, really drawn to, like the edges and, wherever I’ve been part of a bigger church, there’s always been like, if there’s something happening on the edge or like kind of seeing, you know, different groups, what people are doing, then I’ve often been part of that. And so I went from Baptist Church, I joined Sole Survivor Harrow.
00:02:19:14 – 00:02:53:14
Speaker 2
And that was part that was the youth church, of a group of churches. I was part of that. And then I’m on the kind of labeling my leadership team was that for young people there? And then I uni stayed in London, as I said, and kind of looked a couple of different churches. And then the I found myself, being drawn to Acton and, you know, old Acton was a good old Acton.
00:02:53:16 – 00:03:44:14
Speaker 2
And I so I was a secondary school teacher, for many years, teaching religious studies. And I got a job in Acton. Then I had friends who moved to Acton. French moved to be accurate, at, the church. Where? Yeah. Where Mark and I, met and, so I ended up going over there to, Oak Tree Anglican Fellowship and then, a group of us went and started a community, on an estate, in Acton, staying at some still, and then kind of near the end of that, I felt, the calling to, start to some of process, I kind of looking at,
00:03:44:16 – 00:04:09:22
Speaker 2
becoming a priest in the Church of England. I which was something I felt called to when I was about 17, but totally ignored, because I found myself, sitting, having a chat with the rector of state, Soho, which is, modern liberal, Catholic tradition and of church, but in the heart of London.
00:04:09:24 – 00:04:30:13
Speaker 2
I really, thought going this is it. So it’s very different from traditions I’ve been part of before, but I just really felt strongly called to it. We walked around and part of it was, kind of looking at, you know, different things that if I was going to be the curate there that we’d be part of.
00:04:30:15 – 00:04:53:09
Speaker 2
And he showed me, he said, look, this is, but next door to the church building. And this is where the charity Centrepoint was. But they, had to move out. We’re exploring a cafe, a coffee shop, and he said, so a possible be just having a look at what what that could look like.
00:04:53:11 – 00:04:54:07
Speaker 2
00:04:54:09 – 00:05:21:16
Speaker 1
And there we go. Someone who’s been on the edges and on the fringes of of church membership throughout your life. You end up on the fringes by helping to shape this cafe attached to a church in Soho, which, if anyone knows about Soho, I. I worked in Soho for a number of years at the start of my career.
00:05:21:18 – 00:05:37:06
Speaker 1
It’s all it’s the media center, one of the media centers of the of the country. And but it’s also a very, very fruity kind of area, isn’t it? So, very much live people on the edges of all sorts of different parts of society.
00:05:37:08 – 00:05:58:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a really, it’s quite interesting. The previous curate and he took me around because I yeah, I, I’d gone to say hi when I was younger. There’s like bars, music venues there. And he was walking around going, oh and his Ronnie Scott’s. And I was like, yes, yes, I know. And here’s this on. And then he went and then the bars here.
00:05:58:16 – 00:06:24:07
Speaker 2
There’s some social housing. You know, we visit, I visit one of, operations. Is there an elderly lady? And over here is last, like, 000, I didn’t know this. And there’s this, like, wonderful community, made up of this amazing, eclectic mix of people and, and that’s kind of shown in so and so I saw that in the church as well.
00:06:24:09 – 00:06:24:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:06:24:12 – 00:06:44:10
Speaker 1
So tell me, tell me then a little bit more about this, this cafe. I remember we had a conversation a few months ago about it when we were just catching up, but I remember you mentioned a few things about it having a different sort of approach. Yeah. Tell us, tell us about what one of these you guys are doing and, and what sort of what’s what’s special about it.
00:06:44:12 – 00:07:23:23
Speaker 2
So this is not my baby. This is really the baby of, Jake the. He’s operations manager. And also, Yeah. Father Simon. Oh. Bobby is like, this is their baby. So I’m kind of, I love it, but I’m like, the talking about it on their behalf. Really? But they say that that was really important was they they were like, we we need to show kind of the values of that are important, to Christianity.
00:07:24:00 – 00:07:57:12
Speaker 2
And so kind of like hospitality. And inclusivity, and kind of the importance of, like impacting your community. So being a really a real community space, as well as having, really good coffee, so I know and there’s and there’s some like, there’s lots of coffee and coffee shops, you know, like, I’ve seen or I’ve been to and, and they do, they have amazing coffee.
00:07:57:12 – 00:08:16:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. And we’re like, we, we we need that. But it has to be good. And our, the arts manager, Jake, and his, former life, he he did, he was, a barista. So it was always like when I, when I first signed up for an interview here, I’m like, oh, what would you like?
00:08:16:17 – 00:08:35:22
Speaker 2
The coffee, which I. Oh, yes. Sure. And I thought, oh, yeah, that’ll be nice. And, it was like, what would you like, do you like that? Might or would you like this. So and the carry on it was like this lovely. Like like, latte kind of art on the top. And I was like, wow. I have never been given that.
00:08:35:24 – 00:09:30:21
Speaker 2
So I that so if I stuff been done really well, he, but also, the important thing was they came over and over again saying, we need to, make sure we’re serving people, not coffee. So it’s like it’s about the people and getting to know people in, and and making sure it was a place for people and, where community, could be built, and kind of nurtured as well after, but it’s quite open, so it’s quite, this is a place I found, like doing kind of and pioneering stuff in the past is that you really you kind of get a little, like, a little into a
00:09:30:21 – 00:09:48:23
Speaker 2
lot. I think you should sort that. They should, you know, but you have to be open to see what develops them and what it turns into, rather than going with your, very fixed, rigid like view of something. And I think the other thing really opens up, yeah. Yeah.
00:09:49:00 – 00:10:17:08
Speaker 1
That’s a common, a very, very common thread that we see in this movement is, but we have the, the and fresh expressions journey. And the first part of the fresh expressions journey is listening. And again, I’ve probably said this in another couple of episodes. So sorry listeners, if you hearing it again, but I’m just for them. The bit where we hear about the most important commands being yeah, yeah, love God and love your neighbor.
00:10:17:10 – 00:10:38:14
Speaker 1
But that preceded, of course, by here, O Israel. So actually the first thing you’ve got to do is listen, and in doing so and many practitioners will be familiar with the idea of just going, actually, yes, listening. And sometimes people will have an idea, of course, and that will be inspired by what they’ve seen. They may not realize that they’ve been listening, but often people are listening.
00:10:38:14 – 00:10:44:02
Speaker 1
They’re just observing, seeing a need and saying, here’s, here’s a need.
00:10:44:04 – 00:11:09:21
Speaker 2
I keep on listening, like continuously kind of not just go, this is my chunk of listening. Then this is what I can do. But, like, continuously listening, reevaluating. And I’m saying, is this right? Like feeling away and and that’s something I found quite interesting. And yeah, like I said, I’ve seen before when I’ve seen like pioneering stuff and things of like doing like lots of little things and having a go at that.
00:11:09:23 – 00:11:39:06
Speaker 2
And the coffee shop is obviously like the, the, you know, the big umbrella thing, little thing starts in that you like, have a guy in it. I know down from even teasing the pastries doesn’t thing like, you know, let’s have a little go at these. How does that work out. And then it’s like, or like, there’ll be a nice someone’s putting on an event, or, you know, like a community event, and say like, try it out, see if it works.
00:11:39:08 – 00:11:51:01
Speaker 2
And just not to be a not being afraid of saying, actually, I don’t think that’s quite working. Yes. Try something else. And and going with that and being okay with,
00:11:51:03 – 00:11:54:00
Speaker 1
Adopting a culture where it’s okay to fail.
00:11:54:02 – 00:12:15:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Which is hard. Which is, which is really hard. Like, I remember, when I was kind of going for my, trying to go for ordination, try doing the Missional Community week I’ve been a part of many years. It came to an end. And, I remember speaking to Bishop, I was talking to then I think you said.
00:12:15:18 – 00:12:34:16
Speaker 2
So. Tell me about your mission. Okay? That was a failure. Why was it a failure? And I was like, oh, oh, oh, a failure, and it was like being able to talk about, like, actually there wasn’t a failure. There was amazing stuff that came out of that. But say, like, what do we learn and how do you change and adapt stuff?
00:12:34:18 – 00:12:52:17
Speaker 2
And I think, like what we’re doing now with Sacred Ground, it’s giving. I don’t know, I feel more comfortable now with that thing of saying like, okay, oh, have a little go at something. And yeah, and if it doesn’t work, so okay, why didn’t work. I mean there was that. Yeah.
00:12:52:19 – 00:13:17:18
Speaker 1
It’s so important. And again it’s another thread that comes up on two fronts. One, our Western culture, it’s very much about striving for perfection and getting something right and doing it excellently. So we get those pressures also from all of our major denominations. So from the Church of England Baptist, the Methodists, there are these structures are at play, and rightly so.
00:13:17:18 – 00:13:43:14
Speaker 1
But this isn’t necessarily criticism of them. They are necessary to help us build church in different ways of course, but sometimes one of the negative sides of that that comes is with the expectations and accountability that’s directed in the wrong way. And that’s, that’s difficult because often it can be seen, you know, especially for the big denominations, the measure of being bums on seats, when for a lot of pioneers, it’s not about that.
00:13:43:14 – 00:14:25:23
Speaker 1
It’s about deep discipleship is that’s where the fruit is. But that’s not necessarily measurable. And that’s not going to necessarily go to common fund or that kind of thing. But the other learning that we see, especially when we look back over the past 20 years, how the church looks, would not look the way it does. How the church looks today would not look the way had it not been for the pioneers of the past 20 years trying different things and being creative and doing all this great stuff and trying and failing and trying and failing and also acknowledging, of course, that one person’s failure doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not going to be another person’s absolute
00:14:26:00 – 00:14:27:01
Speaker 1
win.
00:14:27:03 – 00:14:57:08
Speaker 2
You know? Yeah, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t assume, you know, because you say something’s inside you. But then like, you speak to the people whose lives it is impacted and you know, who’ve come to faith and for and they wouldn’t say it was a failure at all. Yeah, I think it’s it’s okay. But like me saying it’s okay to say this and it hasn’t worked and try it out and we’re in a privileged position where we are here.
00:14:57:10 – 00:15:34:19
Speaker 2
And we should say about it before the to be able to have this kind of umbrella thing where you can try out lots of little things and, and so I think at the moment we do know the community really well here in Soho, like Saint and the parish church has been here many, many, many years. And they are already ingrained in the community here, you know, when, when it was looking at like they were meeting in little tiny rooms for many years, the main building had, after the Second World War being bombed, like being bombed in the war.
00:15:34:21 – 00:16:01:08
Speaker 2
And so they make this little room, they need that community, and they still do. And, and when it was like, oh, we don’t need a church anymore. Let’s just have a car park or something, like, so, hey, when we need a church, we, we need that. And that kind of thing has continued that they’re still listening and, so ingrained in the community, but also willing to see what the community needs as the needs change to go with that.
00:16:01:12 – 00:16:13:14
Speaker 2
I think this is just another way of saying, okay, how can we meet the needs of the community in other ways? But but kind of yeah, looking at that.
00:16:13:16 – 00:16:29:03
Speaker 1
Bearing in mind, as you said, it’s a coffee shop that isn’t afraid to flex and flow and change a church run owned coffee shop that’s fostering community, what does that look like? How does that play out?
00:16:29:05 – 00:16:56:04
Speaker 2
So at the moment basically we get the goods from like local businesses, residents. Hey the bakery, we have crazy ginger and the shops, from Saba, the young guy. Oh the church, the storm flowers. He’s another local business. So that’s kind of that kind of side of it. And again, it’s trying out if other people have ideas or things they want to bring into it.
00:16:56:06 – 00:17:24:02
Speaker 2
There’s kind of space for people sharing what they’re doing in the community, like the community board, you know, different things. They’re also like a community event to start happening there. So it’s open if it’s for the community, it’s for free. The highest, let’s say high society planning meeting or, LGBT efforts like for like community trusts, forums like that is that kind of thing.
00:17:24:04 – 00:17:52:21
Speaker 2
Copper with the copper. Did you think cuppa with the copper. That’s not a bullet. But like, yes, it’s like people come in single. Okay. This is a place where that people coming and you can chat to people and and kind of find out what people’s needs are also have like, on Tuesday mornings a Bible study discussion and, yeah, there’s other stuff and things you can’t quite put your finger on.
00:17:52:23 – 00:18:06:02
Speaker 2
So stuff where it’s like just little conversations, little moments, where the same people that come in and they’re starting to meet there and you chat to them, there’s just something to.
00:18:06:04 – 00:18:47:11
Speaker 1
Going back to that stuff and building, building community, which is about building relationships because the community is made up of the individual relationships. Right. But that mesh of relationships is what becomes community. Yeah, that mesh and mass of relationships. You mentioned sort of doing there’s a lot of community focused events, and you mentioned about sort of doing a Bible study and it’s the the relational angle or the other aspects that are more focused on some of faith building or, Christian community building in that respect, or is it very much that light touch of you’re relying on the the community relational community building to then grow into something more faith based?
00:18:47:11 – 00:19:25:01
Speaker 2
I think it’s still like like I’m saying a lot of it. And this is why I think it can be quite frustrating, to want to see like, results quickly. And I said my, and that can be really hard. But I think a lot of it is still kind of listening and kind of. Yeah, putting out those little light, little hooks and saying, okay, so this is this kind of where we’re going to think a topic or is this and I think it’s still started in Lausanne in January, this year.
00:19:25:03 – 00:19:55:24
Speaker 2
So it’s still relatively new in terms of like with businesses. So I think it’s kind of like a lot of that listening out, hush hush hush hush hush hush hush. And it has. Yeah. I think in terms of kind of it’s not one it wasn’t wanting to be like overt. And that was one thing, but that was like a concern about like no one’s to be like overt evangelism, still evangelism, talking about Jesus.
00:19:56:01 – 00:20:10:07
Speaker 2
But not in a kind of in-your-face kind of way, which works in some communities and, places would not in this way work. Yeah.
00:20:10:09 – 00:20:32:19
Speaker 1
No, I think we I think we understand that, there’s a key thing about, in, in many pioneering communities that it’s people inquiring about faith and learning about Jesus is often on their terms, not our terms. Because if it’s on our terms, then we’re not listening, right?
00:20:32:19 – 00:20:33:19
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:20:33:21 – 00:20:43:03
Speaker 1
If they’re term somewhere, then we’re less now. And often when the spirit is gently prodding us to say, listen, listen.
00:20:43:05 – 00:20:49:09
Speaker 2
Okay. And some. Yeah. Not often listening.
00:20:49:11 – 00:21:09:21
Speaker 1
It’s funny how those things just keep happening. Tell us, a little bit about, what are the kind of challenges that you have? And, because I or are there some of the challenges that it is some of that stuff of like trying to resist the temptation to fall back into the old ways of doing things, going like, right, we’ve got to eventually get people on.
00:21:09:21 – 00:21:19:00
Speaker 1
So and it’s not about that. Are there other challenges from the community? Are there? Yeah, yeah. One of the one of the tricky things that you face.
00:21:19:02 – 00:22:04:09
Speaker 2
I think a major challenge is, you know, it’s a business. So it’s looking at, you know, there are lots of coffee shops in Soho. This was this was something like. It’s interesting. People’s feedback has been like definitely different about here. Yeah. And, and say kind of in terms of church. Yeah. It’s just kind of like selling coffee, like, do you sell stuff or and that calls you like, reevaluate your policies, but you still you need it to be someone that’s welcoming and open for everyone so that, like, so there’s kind of, you know, the prices are reasonable.
00:22:04:11 – 00:22:41:07
Speaker 2
But they’re still kind of like, you can get a cheap like, I don’t feel just tea for a quid, say go away. Like, that’s a bit. There has to still be some stuff there, but it’s available to everyone. But whilst also recognizing the like the price is the kind of on line with if what other people are charging kind of in in Soho and you’re having to obviously if for business going you kind of making sure like that’s not the main thing.
00:22:41:09 – 00:23:09:00
Speaker 2
Like it’s like the mission behind that. And I think, I think that’s be hard. And just starting a business of, I know, like, I’m looking at, okay, how kind of just how you get routines, how you do stuff. The staff, it’s been really cool. They’re great actually. They’re wonderful. They’re amazing bunch.
00:23:09:02 – 00:23:24:16
Speaker 2
They’re not. They’re not from the church. They were hired. But people who were kind of really behind, what we’re doing, which. So I kind of can’t put a challenge on there.
00:23:24:18 – 00:23:45:15
Speaker 1
It’s it’s, I mean, there’s a there’s a there’s still quite unique, unique challenges. And often I think sometimes I again, I see sometimes when I ask people what challenges they face, often people can be dismissive of their challenges because it’s just, oh, it’s just life as like, well, no, it’s analogies. And some of the things that you don’t think are challenges are challenges.
00:23:45:15 – 00:23:52:04
Speaker 1
And that’s but that’s not okay. I realize we’re, we’re we’re getting very, very short on time.
00:23:52:06 – 00:23:54:00
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:23:54:02 – 00:24:23:03
Speaker 1
And, I, I do sort of very briefly want to touch off on this before we, we sort of, tend to land a little bit, but, we, we’ve talked about some of those challenges that you, that you face at what, what kind of support it feels because it’s very you’re you’re a little bit different to a lot of the pioneers that we have to a lot of ten, practitioners that we chat to a lot.
00:24:23:05 – 00:24:54:04
Speaker 1
And that you’re part of a team already, who are doing this stuff together. And it sounds because it was the, the brain child of other people already in your community, and it doesn’t seem like you’re lacking support in that way. And it doesn’t seem like you have the same challenges as some do of not having support, not having people to what to to work alongside.
00:24:54:06 – 00:25:08:15
Speaker 1
Other, other, other ways that you do keep yourself. Well in that environments that might be different to sort of more traditional church teams, I guess churchy teams.
00:25:08:15 – 00:25:36:13
Speaker 2
It’s hard because, I think I think what you’re saying is. Right. So I, I know when I’ve shown it’s very different from being like, yeah, but we’re in like mission meeting. You’re like, that’s you out on your, whereas here church, it’s kind of we’re in the rhythms of, and the rhythms of prayer, from from the church, next door.
00:25:36:15 – 00:26:06:19
Speaker 2
As well as kind of, you know, start to build new rhythms. But that kind of approach, that but being fed in that way. So I feel like joining that is very different. Yeah. It’s very different from, I’d say a bit of a finding of a fresh expressions and in that sense. So I, I don’t feel that kind of we’re out on a limb kind of thing.
00:26:06:21 – 00:26:34:10
Speaker 2
And also, something that we don’t have, which often there’s the kind of I know people like, but the kind of the pressure from the powers that be that, that I’m ready for a lot of pressure on, people doing fresh expressions. Right. And kind of being torn. I don’t really like, you know, other than pioneer, like Simon, you thought the power.
00:26:34:12 – 00:26:53:10
Speaker 2
You like that. Like it’s his baby, and he is the one doing it. Said like, it’s, and, the church is just fully behind it and parts of it. So I, I don’t feel that we share with staff that that kind of support like we.
00:26:53:12 – 00:27:26:02
Speaker 1
And I think that’s, that’s quite encouraging. I think for what should be encouraging for this, I’m sure some people would be like, oh, that’s not there. But I think we should be encouraged by it because they’re often, often I think partnerships with, more traditional churches do come with a lot of strings sometimes. And so to, to be able to do what you guys are doing and have the freedom to try is, is encouraging and to know that that exists.
00:27:26:03 – 00:27:28:03
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah, there’s kind of being.
00:27:28:05 – 00:27:28:11
Speaker 2
And I.
00:27:28:11 – 00:27:30:18
Speaker 1
Think even in in the missions that happens.
00:27:30:18 – 00:28:00:09
Speaker 2
I think also that sorry, I think also, I, I feel really passionate about the like to remember I reminded the church that the pioneers are also like be women, like traditional churches as well. Like we need honest air as well. Who. Yeah, that they’re excited and starting new stuff. And I’m not scared of that. And I, you know, I think that’s where you go.
00:28:00:10 – 00:28:22:17
Speaker 2
And just the fact that such fresh expressions. Yeah, that they are fresh, they look wholly different. It’s like all kind of look different. And they’ve all come with our own challenges. Yeah. I’m kind of not. Not. I think your one’s the best, but the other best type. But like, I like this is just another, another way of doing it.
00:28:22:23 – 00:28:23:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:28:23:14 – 00:28:51:08
Speaker 1
Sure. You’re right. And you’re, you’re. Reminds me of the challenge. I think of that in a, in a couple of episodes now of sometimes of within the, the facial expressions movement. There can almost be a thing of trying to shy away from the established churches and saying no, how they do it is wrong. And I always fight that almost tooth and nail, because it’s it’s not that, anyone’s doing it wrong, although some people might disagree with me on that.
00:28:51:10 – 00:29:15:14
Speaker 1
It’s the fact that the beauty of this movement is there is a massive breadth of all sorts of creative things, right? From doing stuff just a little bit different in a traditional, in a traditional sense to some of the people who do some absolutely amazingly creative, very, very different things. And, we’ve, we’ve optimized those before it is celebrated.
00:29:15:19 – 00:29:20:23
Speaker 1
The, the, the breadth of, of Christ’s Christ Church.
00:29:21:02 – 00:29:22:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:29:22:10 – 00:29:47:14
Speaker 1
It’s not ours, it’s Christ. And that looks very different. And I think if anything, whenever anyone says, I think I’ve got it right, usually that’s where we’ve got to challenge ourselves and go like, but do we? What else could we? And that’s truly our state as we come to it to a close. Martha, my final question for you is people listening.
00:29:47:16 – 00:29:52:18
Speaker 1
What do you say to those people who who might be thinking of doing something different?
00:29:52:20 – 00:30:23:04
Speaker 2
Very simply, there are no, like they’d be scared. They, Yeah. Don’t touch that. Let your face get in the way. And, Just listen to God. Continue to listen to God and, just give it a shot. Have a go. But just, like, hold on. You know, you’re out listening to God in God saying, back out.
00:30:23:04 – 00:30:29:14
Speaker 2
Oh. But just have a go at it. Have a go.
00:30:29:16 – 00:30:45:00
Speaker 1
Brilliant. Martha, make. This has been delightful just to hang out. Yeah. Or even better to see, And. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think we we we wish you luck. We will be praying.
00:30:45:00 – 00:30:45:15
Speaker 2
For you guys.
00:30:45:15 – 00:30:56:19
Speaker 1
And as I encourage people to, we as a charity and the team will be praying for you. But I encourage our listeners always to to pray for the, the stories and the people that they’ve heard on the podcast.
00:30:56:19 – 00:30:58:00
Speaker 2
They like you.
00:30:58:02 – 00:31:05:05
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for giving the time to tell us about it and bless you. We wish you luck and no doubt we’ll chat again.
00:31:05:10 – 00:31:07:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, I hope so. Thanks, Mark.
00:31:07:14 – 00:31:37:15
Speaker 1
Brilliant. Lesley mate. Yeah, thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed that episode. If you want to dig a bit deeper, there’s loads over at Fresh expressions.org. Duke, things like godsend, our toolkit for starting new Christian communities, plus loads of other resources, worship ideas and real life stories. You’ll also find info about the gatherings we run throughout the year, books and resources in our shop, coaching and training for pioneers and for the leaders across denominations, dioceses, networks.
00:31:37:17 – 00:31:48:06
Speaker 1
You can sign up to our newsletter or follow us on our socials, or find out how to support and partner with us. It’s all there on the website. Go take a look. Fresh expressions.org..