Ep 003 [Stories] Eryl Parry

Stories

00:00 / 1:00:14

Eryl Parry is a pioneer priest in the Church of Wales serving in the diocese of Conwy in North Wales and also serves as a chaplain on Bardsey Island.

In this episode, we chat about chaplaincy on an island as well as church at the top of a mountain!

00:00:10:01 – 00:00:38:16
Speaker 1
Hello. Welcome back to the Mission Shaped Podcast. I’m Beth Man, and I’ll be chatting with my co-host Mark Robinson a bit later on. First we’re going to be hearing from Arrow Power sharing about rural church chaplain on the island and on a mountain will be going on a journey as we go to the top of this mountain. Enjoy.

00:00:38:18 – 00:00:40:13
Unknown
I hope you guys.

00:00:40:15 – 00:01:01:04
Speaker 3
Have enjoyed this episode in your podcast that will really help in other people finding this podcast. Also, if you want to get in touch and join the conversation, you can find different ways of doing that. Thank you for our website the Mission check podcast cost if you bring it to the Bachelor side. Good stuff. So yeah, Tim Lee told me that we should, get you on.

00:01:01:06 – 00:01:16:03
Speaker 3
Said you’re someone who would have a story or two to tell him. So hence us getting in touch. But we’ve never met. And I have to tell our audience I think we know nothing about each other, which should be.

00:01:16:03 – 00:01:16:17
Speaker 4
Brilliant for.

00:01:16:17 – 00:01:20:14
Speaker 3
Great conversation.

00:01:20:16 – 00:01:45:04
Speaker 3
To to remind you that the the point of this podcast and what we’re doing is trying to get stories, from people in the, the movement who are, who are doing this stuff. And, yeah, just to, to, to see what they’re doing. And then we realize that those stories will encourage other people who are in the middle of doing stuff themselves.

00:01:45:06 – 00:02:08:08
Speaker 3
And, it’ll also encourage those people who who might be thinking about getting involved and, and doing stuff, who might be at the very early stages of being prompted by God to step up and do something. So that’s the point. And that’s what we’re we’re about. So for our audience, my name is Mark Robinson. I’m work for Fresh Expressions doing communications.

00:02:08:10 – 00:02:18:11
Speaker 3
And our guest today is Aaron Barry. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us where you’re at, where you’re from, and, what it is you’re up to?

00:02:18:13 – 00:03:03:10
Speaker 4
Okay. So, I’m, pioneer priest in North Wales. For anyone who has been to, to come way on the North Wales coast, it’s quite a, a tourism hub, really. A it’s a medieval world town. And, my husband is, is the vicar, in Conway. But because, the Church in Wales, the Anglican diocese, regrouped churches into ministry areas some time ago, like the rest of the church in Wales.

00:03:03:12 – 00:03:38:03
Speaker 4
David has responsibility for Conway and part of the Conway Valley, which comes into, Snowdonia. And I was ordained as a pioneer priest, having given up my, career in Liverpool. David and I came, over here, six and a half years ago. So my story is one of huge surprise, but, as a coming home, really, as a Welsh Scouser.

00:03:38:05 – 00:03:41:12
Speaker 3
Brilliant, brilliant. What was what was your career before?

00:03:41:14 – 00:04:08:23
Speaker 4
So my career before I started, life working for John Lewis. As a graduate trainee. Worked for them for 13 years. But then, I found myself, really developing enterprises, for, faith organizations. So, I ran a conference center and, a development for, for the Roman Catholic Church, actually in Liverpool.

00:04:09:00 – 00:04:47:07
Speaker 4
And then for 13 years again, I was what they called the director of enterprise in, the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. So responsible for things that weren’t worship, actually, but building bridges with business and the arts and, running a trading company there, effective late, that blasted out the doors through capital culture and all the rest of it, and ended up, on various boards and groups that were to do with, business regeneration and, joining the dots with faith in that way.

00:04:47:07 – 00:05:22:03
Speaker 4
Really. So was very urban. Always been up and, working in cities, either in department stores and back in my home town in Liverpool. But my parents were, Welsh, spoke Welsh in the home, all the extended family in Snowdonia. So when my mother died, we found, ourselves actually talking to others at my mum’s funeral about, changes in life.

00:05:22:05 – 00:05:48:10
Speaker 4
We began to feel a real call to to roots. I guess. When the job in Conway came up, it really felt like now, actually, there’s a there’s a different season going to happen here. And, and I gave up my career, and I stopped. I ended up looking after my dad for a year.

00:05:48:12 – 00:06:21:09
Speaker 4
That job of caring. And I think there was something about, you know, the craziness of life that I’d left in and just completely stopping. And, And I don’t think that you reinvent yourself. I think God has the whole plan. But actually, I’ve definitely entered this incredible, new chapter of life in this last six years.

00:06:21:09 – 00:06:56:06
Speaker 4
This ended up with me being ordained myself, but in a completely different way. Due to my husband being a vicar and me having almost gone actually, this is my identity. I’ve always been a woman of faith, working, in commercial sectors or within the faith, business in business. But, but this, this actual joining of the dots that I call it, is completely me.

00:06:56:06 – 00:07:03:20
Speaker 4
And I feel so blessed, so privileged, really, to be able to do this in the place that we are now.

00:07:03:22 – 00:07:39:07
Speaker 3
Has, the your tone as you speak about that, indicated, an almost, a change in pace of life from going from sort of a corporate world to ministry world. And I realize my wife is has just been ordained this summer. So we realize, like ordained life is not easy and it’s not full and busy. But, just from how you spoke about has was there a distinct sort of change in pace of life for you and going from one world to the other, or was it just a change and and.

00:07:39:09 – 00:08:13:16
Speaker 4
Yeah, I think I think there was a difference in pace. Certainly when I found myself much more, homebound, in that early period. But I think now I would say I am just as busy, actually, but I’m not stressed. And there’s a difference. There is a difference. I think I had never even really fully understood what pioneer was.

00:08:13:19 – 00:08:42:12
Speaker 4
And I certainly never knew that you could be a pioneer priest. It is all come as a huge surprise. But then a coming home, in many ways, and you kind of will see that, I suppose, as we talk about what it is then that that has happened here and what we do. But, I, I just don’t feel, that this is, this is a chore at all.

00:08:42:12 – 00:09:08:17
Speaker 4
And I don’t think I did in Liverpool, but it was it was people related to me in a very different way, I think. And here, there is far less planned, thing. I would always say I was the girl of business plans, outcomes, targets, you know, all of that, all of that stuff. And now that’s all gone.

00:09:08:19 – 00:09:43:03
Speaker 4
It’s completely gone. I don’t work to, to a mission plan, really. Probably in the way that the church would want me to. It’s much more, I think led by, that whole idea of doing the work of joining in missio de, you know, what’s arriving, what’s, you know, how do we place our antennae out there to, to do the work and joining in and it grows through garden.

00:09:43:03 – 00:09:47:23
Speaker 4
It almost feels to an outsider, I guess, that it grows organically.

00:09:48:00 – 00:10:06:01
Speaker 3
Brilliant. Why don’t you then what do you find. That brings us nicely onto the thing of why don’t you tell us about your community. And what, what, what is it you’re doing. What is and how did you, how did you come to to starting or getting involved with it?

00:10:06:03 – 00:10:36:06
Speaker 4
Yeah. I, I would say that the start of it really was, two very wild places. David, my husband has the, has in his responsibilities five churches and four of them have got congregations and one hasn’t. And the one that hasn’t is a hilltop church. It’s 900ft above. The nearest village has an incredible vista of the Canadian mountains.

00:10:36:06 – 00:11:08:13
Speaker 4
And, the coast from up there. And you could call it a pilgrim church, I guess. Or, however you want to label those kind of sacred spaces, that people get drawn to but doesn’t have a settled congregation at all. And, it has a sixth century. Well, I mean, it’s just an incredible, and, and I never thought that not having a congregation would be a gift.

00:11:08:15 – 00:11:36:18
Speaker 4
But actually, it’s been amazingly freeing, and I think that was part of the journey, and that I’d been a a worship leader, you know, in our home churches, wherever we’d been, you know, for a long time. And when I saw this part of the there’s no way that this, this place can be treated as ordinary, you know, it’s an extraordinary, and, I’m putting the antenna out.

00:11:36:18 – 00:12:12:18
Speaker 4
It seemed that that a lot of people who wouldn’t necessarily find themselves in church would, would post themselves, you know, on social media, going to this place, for whatever reason, you know, and when we, we started doing regular services, monthly services there, between March to October, it really became obvious that this was going to be Celtic race because there’s something very authentic.

00:12:12:18 – 00:12:45:19
Speaker 4
I think people are looking for that and less institutional feeling and certainly non-denominational. So wearing the the Anglican badge very lightly, very lightly. And the people drawn to Finger London, which is the name of the church, some would come from different denominations and then others who would probably place yoga or something like that in the center of their spirituality.

00:12:45:21 – 00:12:58:00
Speaker 4
No electricity in the same place, no heating. And actually, you’d think that shouldn’t be a gift.

00:12:58:02 – 00:13:22:11
Speaker 4
But, you know, it actually is. It’s, it’s really stripped down. Yeah. So people are there in their boots and their hats and their thing, and you walk there through the mountain pass. So it’s, you know, we concentrate usually on accessibility stuff. Yeah. You have to make a real effort to get there.

00:13:22:13 – 00:13:50:19
Speaker 3
It strikes me as the kind of like when often when people sort of walk into certain sacred spaces, the, the act of crossing a threshold, you know, you sort of have this thing of the, there’s an action of walking through a threshold, even when you walk into someone’s home from the outside and you there’s an experiential thing. And, and it feels like from what you’re saying, the experience you have there is not tenfold, but maybe a thousand fold.

00:13:50:19 – 00:13:58:15
Speaker 3
Because not only especially when you consider this time of year, it’s going to be much colder without power. You just have to think differently.

00:13:58:17 – 00:14:26:24
Speaker 4
Oh yeah. Everything. Yeah, I that completely, completely I mean, I think there’s a sense of anticipation because it takes an effort to get there. And, and there is a sort of pilgrimage feel to it. But we’ve, we’ve sort of been building community there and, and I think, there’s always been a little bit of a challenge for me.

00:14:26:24 – 00:14:54:15
Speaker 4
To what extent is that a resource for those, who are worshiping elsewhere? But they see scratching somewhere different and, and I and I think that’s okay. I think, you know, we’re happy to, to, to welcome without sheep rustling. You know, we’re not wanting people from other churches to kind of build our kingdom. Not at all.

00:14:54:17 – 00:15:31:08
Speaker 4
And want to be a resource, but but within that, there are those who, who wouldn’t be going anywhere else and find, a gentleness and acceptance, there because it’s very spacious. It’s it’s reflective. And, and those who provide music, are also gathered, but, principally through mates, the in an orchestra that so it’s guitar, fiddle, you know, wind, you know, whatever.

00:15:31:08 – 00:15:57:13
Speaker 4
And and it’s so it it’s it’s nice that, you know, you kind of PowerPoint band worship nor your traditional organ hen energy. You know, it kind of feels like a different spot. There’s a bit of chant, there’s a bit of, you know, all of that. But that’s been really life giving. The other spot is I was asked to be a chaplain on Bardsey Island.

00:15:57:15 – 00:16:32:23
Speaker 4
And those who don’t know Bardsey, it’s, it’s an island off the, the coast of the thin peninsula. So, you know, the, of Wales. And there’s a tiny little island. It’s only a mile and a half long and, that’s been a center of pilgrimage for, for centuries. But it has a bird observatory, and, there are a dozen houses there that you can hire over the summer months, to have a completely wild get away from it, experience.

00:16:33:00 – 00:16:47:02
Speaker 4
And, although there are people who are of faith and, and know it as a, as a pilgrimage destination, there are far more people there who go for the get away from it all wildlife.

00:16:47:04 – 00:17:02:19
Speaker 3
And I’m looking. I mean, our audience won’t see me necessarily looking, but I’m looking on the screen on Google Maps, trying to just like, remind myself where it was. I think some friends that had a holiday here, but looking at it’s like a lie. It really is.

00:17:02:21 – 00:17:03:15
Speaker 4
It’s not much.

00:17:03:15 – 00:17:04:21
Speaker 3
There. There’s nothing.

00:17:04:23 – 00:17:27:09
Speaker 4
It’s fantastic. It’s absolutely fantastic. And, and and at the crossing over there is precarious. You have to take all your own food with you and you, and you may not get off on the day that you want to come back, because there are there are currents, in the sound. And, Colin, the boatman will only take you over if it’s safe.

00:17:27:11 – 00:17:54:00
Speaker 4
So even though it’s only a 20, 25 minute ride. Sail over that. It’s a tricky one. So, So you’re very much on the island with, people have come to stay there for a week, usually, either in the houses or in the bird observatory. And you’ve got this identity as a chaplain.

00:17:54:02 – 00:18:32:03
Speaker 4
And it’s just such a gift. Because, I think I really did find my calling the, because it combined creativity and response. So I might sit on a bench looking at the waves or the sails with people who, because it’s so small, would they really engage in the detail smallness of scale. And you can ponder, you know, that for an afternoon.

00:18:32:05 – 00:18:36:01
Speaker 4
But but of course, it allows you to go deeper.

00:18:36:03 – 00:18:36:15
Speaker 3

00:18:36:15 – 00:19:21:09
Speaker 4
And people then start to get perspective on what they’ve left on the mainland. And then, and then you invite people to perhaps to, to chapel or, you know, to a space of the evening and you can make a creative response to the conversations you’ve had during the day. So on the island I’ve done, you know, impromptu you bereavement service, or responded, there was one guy who had who had come for birdwatching and had been in the hide and had felt that he completely lost himself.

00:19:21:11 – 00:19:37:09
Speaker 4
He hadn’t been kind of cataloging the birds in the way that he’s, but felt at one with creation and wanted to make sense of that. And what, you know, what a gift. Is.

00:19:37:11 – 00:19:38:19
Speaker 3
Amazing.

00:19:38:21 – 00:20:19:02
Speaker 4
Yeah, it was amazing. And, actually, we we were, in the evenings. We were, I was inviting people into to follow a sort of series of meditations, really. And they were just plucking out, ones that that would make sense to, to that experience. And, I think I’ve had such profound experiences of blessing there and connection and my, the faith, in seeing God at work in others there and with people who would have never, ever thought going into a chapel would be part of their holiday.

00:20:19:04 – 00:20:54:22
Speaker 4
And I think that’s really set me on the road for here. So there’s been some good learning, but, I think, probably one of the biggest responses we’ve had here, now is to. A community that we call worship in the wild, and worship in the wild, has some of those folk who come to Franklin and once some, but quite a number who, who don’t.

00:20:54:24 – 00:21:04:18
Speaker 4
And, that is a monthly, contemplative walk in the mountains.

00:21:04:20 – 00:21:06:24
Speaker 3
That sounds amazing.

00:21:07:01 – 00:21:32:19
Speaker 4
It’s, I think this is probably the journey that, that I’m, I’m talking about and praying about most, at the moment, there seems to be a real movement of God, I think, across the country, to to rediscover God in the outdoors.

00:21:32:21 – 00:21:33:14
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah.

00:21:33:15 – 00:22:03:16
Speaker 4
There’s a huge amount of interest. There’s a huge amount of interest within the gathered church, and there’s a huge amount of interest, outside it. And, it it’s been so life getting here, and I’m learning so much I don’t really want on this podcast, present myself as an expert because I’m, I’m a I’m a fellow pilgrim, you know, I’m I’m a learner.

00:22:03:18 – 00:22:48:16
Speaker 4
And, God is teaching me so much through worship in the wild. We, have a different circular walk every every month, so it isn’t like a, a forest church service. It is a walk. We divide it into sections, there’s always, a kind of introduction, which is, we believe that God speaks through companionship and the companionship of one another, walking shoulder to shoulder.

00:22:48:18 – 00:23:07:01
Speaker 4
God’s in our conversation, our gentle conversations. God is in, his created world, his creation. And he will speak to you through landscape. But he’ll also speak to you through stillness.

00:23:07:03 – 00:23:07:21
Speaker 3

00:23:07:23 – 00:23:42:18
Speaker 4
So, we always have what we call ponder spot. And those ponder spots might have a poem or a prayer or silence. And they always change every month. According to to the landscape, the weather or the person who’s leading it. So one of the things that I’ve learned a lot is, is to give away leadership much earlier.

00:23:42:20 – 00:24:09:12
Speaker 4
So I am a leader in a way, because I organize it. Yeah. Now, thank goodness for everybody else. It’s not only me that has a voice in this. And, I’ve always kind of believed and co-created creativity, that you, you always get the best results when you’re genuinely at war. Working with others.

00:24:09:14 – 00:24:10:12
Speaker 3

00:24:10:14 – 00:24:17:20
Speaker 4
And you’re starting where people are. Yeah. I think within.

00:24:17:22 – 00:24:54:18
Speaker 4
The more traditional church life, that I’ve been a part of, it’s much more it’s it’s a much longer road before people will put themselves up front. Or maybe recline licensing or whatever. Yeah, yeah, people to preach, whereas actually worship in the wild. You know, I can invite somebody to lead really much sooner. And people you know, start to go into co leadership much quicker now I find it fascinating.

00:24:54:23 – 00:25:29:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think a lot of people will will will get that. Because yeah a lot of people from you know different denominations, a lot of the denominations have structures in place and those structures are rightly in place. And they they make things work and they make these institutions work and all that stuff. But having having those spaces, to be a bit more fluid, and a bit more, I would say getting out of the way of what God might be doing sometimes, is, is really valuable.

00:25:29:11 – 00:25:31:15
Speaker 3
And huge. Yeah.

00:25:31:17 – 00:26:06:11
Speaker 4
I think that’s what so lately, I mean, we we did, one were well, earlier this summer, around, a patch, around, just behind one of the villages that one of the guys knows really well, because it’s his patch, and he. And he really wanted people to discover his patch, you know, and, and he, because he’s gone, you know, he’s been coming a number of times.

00:26:06:11 – 00:26:40:00
Speaker 4
So he’s in the swing of the of and, you know, just dividing it into sections. He and, and we arrived at the top of, of a field, which had really, really high bracken, I mean, jungle like bracken, and we couldn’t see a path. And, and Peter said, right, this, this next thing, we’re going to walk through this, we’re going to, we’re going to walk in silence.

00:26:40:02 – 00:27:04:00
Speaker 4
And, it was so thoughtful. It was so powerful because none of us could see, could see that there was going to be any way through that field. Without Peter’s leadership, we we would not have even attempted it. So we kind of trusted one another. And there was something about the cracking of the a bit underneath the feet.

00:27:04:01 – 00:27:44:02
Speaker 4
And, of course, everybody I mean, we love metaphor, don’t we? You know, we work on metaphor. Christ told parables. He had visual aids, you know, fig trees. And, you know, they parked all and so actually worship in the wild works incredibly on metaphor of reality level. So when you’re gathering at the end of this walk through the bracken, you can imagine the kinds of emotions that they were with me, and that that kind of, you know, a way where there is no way and.

00:27:44:04 – 00:27:44:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00:27:45:00 – 00:28:19:00
Speaker 4
All of that kind of stuff. For for those who, who, you know, are just seeking to make sense of life. And it’s such an incredible introduction to faith, because it starts with this sort of embodied experience, and, there was another and then tie through the, a couple of months later, I was planning the route.

00:28:19:02 – 00:28:43:24
Speaker 4
There was, a part, a section that we’d have to do along a really busy main road. And I was really teed off about it, but, I just can’t find a way of joining the two sections of the walk without going along the main road. And then I thought, oh, Peter’s field of bracken. The silence that that’s what we’ll do.

00:28:44:01 – 00:29:14:14
Speaker 4
But I had no idea that it was going to be as powerful as it was. Because there was a lass from Ukraine who had come to the war who. And we stood on the roadside and she she told a little bit of her story and I said, well, we’re going to walk this this next bit in silence in single file because it’s a safety issue.

00:29:14:16 – 00:29:48:16
Speaker 4
Yeah. But if you’re the praying kind and, and just begin to pray for those who are feeling vulnerable and who are in danger or, or if you’re not, just just think about those things and allow the God who created you and loved you to to meet you in that thought, to attend to you in that thought, because you may be feeling vulnerable yourself.

00:29:48:18 – 00:30:23:15
Speaker 4
We walked along that road and it was it was just so powerful. I was at the front. I could all I could hear was these boots behind me, and then these cars that were going to come and, those in the middle said afterwards they felt so supported. And, you know, we we went over the style and there was some people who were in absolute that.

00:30:23:17 – 00:30:24:09
Speaker 3
Way.

00:30:24:11 – 00:30:51:09
Speaker 4
Who said, there is no way that in the comfort of our living room, praying that we would have had this powerful a sense of God’s protection, and his listening, as we did then, that there’s something about this embodied, worship and worship in the wild that I’m just trying to.

00:30:51:11 – 00:30:51:20
Speaker 3
I’m.

00:30:51:21 – 00:30:56:05
Speaker 4
Trying to understand better because it’s it’s just incredible.

00:30:56:07 – 00:31:23:16
Speaker 3
I can imagine, even in that scenario, even the feeling, that sense of God’s, God’s protection, even in the in the sort of safety of a, a traditional church building behind the pew, you know, you’re not. Yeah, I, I love this, this concept, especially context. So I’m a city boy. I have always been a city boy. I grew up in Dublin, moved over to the UK.

00:31:23:16 – 00:31:49:22
Speaker 3
I’ve lived in London for 26 odd years, spent two years in Bristol and when my wife was training. But I’ve always been city based. Of course my passion is being, one of my, one of my passions is being at my bike at, in the outdoors, on my mountain bike. And this stuff, as you talk about just my heart just sings, I think, like, oh gosh, the idea of doing that.

00:31:49:22 – 00:32:16:24
Speaker 3
But then, ironically, I also I’m one of those impatient city folk where I realize five minutes into I’d probably be like wanting to check my phone or wanting to do that, but that’s more spiritual practice that I have to deal with. But I love the just that concept of the of connection because often, we can have moments like, even if, you know, if I’m here at home and I’m, I’m connecting with God.

00:32:17:01 – 00:32:46:07
Speaker 3
You know, it’s a choice I have to get myself into that headspace. And even if it’s in this room during family breakfast and the kids are going bonkers, we have to focus and get into this. Whereas when you are physically there. So going back to that idea of being in a, in a place of peace, and in creation and in different places, and how so many people talk about the door as being a way that they connect with God’s the best.

00:32:46:07 – 00:33:06:24
Speaker 3
And that’s certainly for me, being on a, on a walk, on a beach and hearing crashing waves. And I think it’s hearing the power of nature and and sometimes feeling so small in that space can really resound with me. And I think it does for well, I know it does for this, having even spoken to friends about this in the past.

00:33:07:01 – 00:33:15:22
Speaker 3
So it’s lovely to hear that you’re. I’m quite envious, actually, of hearing you getting to do this stuff. And being the living it

00:33:15:24 – 00:33:22:05
Speaker 4
I do, I feel actually genuinely like a kid in a sweet show.

00:33:22:07 – 00:33:23:09
Speaker 3
Brilliant.

00:33:23:11 – 00:33:54:05
Speaker 4
Because, We have got this glorious landscape here, that God has provided. So why why wouldn’t we use it? Why wouldn’t we? When in, you know, God is bouncing everywhere at that? Just, And so.

00:33:54:07 – 00:34:15:18
Speaker 4
There’s been this unleashing, I think, of, of creativity in our neck of the woods that actually came through lockdown. You know, when we were chucked out of our buildings. Really? And,

00:34:15:20 – 00:34:52:07
Speaker 4
This worship in the wild, began in 2020 and is now firmly established. It’s it’s it’s not a lockdown project, you know, it’s, at all and even those that I have a conversation with out in the community, about, you know, what is it that I do? I mean, they’ll say, oh, you know, I wouldn’t go to this.

00:34:52:10 – 00:35:12:06
Speaker 4
I’d go to that, because there’s, the there’s a gentleness of invitation, I think, and an immediacy, you know, you talk about your friends who, you know. Yeah. I can relate to the week, to, what have you,

00:35:12:08 – 00:35:24:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. It’s that difference between sort of saying to someone, hey, come along to a church service versus, hey, come along for a walk. Those two can be very, very different things. And we know that God is in both.

00:35:24:05 – 00:35:56:17
Speaker 4
What he really is. And, you know, because I am, ordained and, you know, and I take weddings and funerals and, you know, I’m on the road to, I can, you know, I’m, I’m still taking traditional services. And actually, I think my experience of, of the pioneer stuff, it really helps, helps to me to serve those other parts, too.

00:35:56:19 – 00:36:19:18
Speaker 4
And I think, you know, when, it’s a well-known metaphor now, the the wild meadow and the manicured lawn, you know, I first heard George Lindsay talking about it, but I know you know, Steve, I sort and others have been talking rewilding and what have you, but I do think that there is a place for the wild meadow and and the manicured lawn.

00:36:19:20 – 00:36:41:04
Speaker 4
The difficulty is that if it’s only the manicured lawn, then it’s a monoculture. And that that ability that I have to step across and make bridges between actually rejoice in both is is beautiful, actually. And, it’s a great it’s a great privilege.

00:36:41:06 – 00:37:08:20
Speaker 3
So what I’m trying to think about have, I guess for some people listening to this who will be in very, very different contexts, contexts and might not necessarily have the same, but have models that look very different. I appreciate you still have your own set of challenges. Yeah. That are probably similar in some ways and also probably contextually very, very different.

00:37:08:22 – 00:37:15:09
Speaker 3
But what are what are some of the challenges that you’ve that you faced or that you still face?

00:37:15:11 – 00:37:46:00
Speaker 4
One of the challenges is, is growth. And that’s not for, you know, kind of modesty or whatever or both boasting at all. I think, that, that walk that we did along the main road, I was seriously concerned for, for the size of the group and, and also, you know, we began with four people.

00:37:46:02 – 00:38:14:01
Speaker 4
And it’s a very different experience if you’re in a smaller group. So we are beginning to think now, you know, do we replicate or do we, you know, split into smaller groups. If it’s a circular walk and meet in the middle or whatever. So we’re just beginning to think about that. At the moment I would say the, the group is, is of more mature age.

00:38:14:03 – 00:38:50:11
Speaker 4
We have had some, young families and children come, but it tends to be older. It tends to be, 50s plus, who are on these walks? And and I’m thinking, now do we begin like the mountain pilgrims have in Cumbria? And, I mean, to have, to have toddle, you know, well, what have you that has, more, young family gearing because I think there’s an appetite.

00:38:50:13 – 00:39:11:16
Speaker 4
I think now that is, you know, very firmly established and, on one of our recent walks, some one said to one of the core members, I guess, of the group, or do you go to church? And she said, well, this is my church.

00:39:11:18 – 00:39:15:14
Speaker 3
You know. Yes.

00:39:15:16 – 00:39:46:23
Speaker 4
Then I think that some of us have to, to actually submit ourselves for, for more safety training and all of that stuff. So, I’ve got a sort of private rule for myself or not so private if it’s on here, if you, if you want advice or, try and engage someone who isn’t in the existing cut, you know, who?

00:39:47:00 – 00:40:12:10
Speaker 4
So, went to, a guy who’s been really generous with advice from the mountain rescue team. Yeah, had an evening with him about the safety issues. And I think that if we can get the funding, there’ll be a few of us who go now for for, for lowland, leader training with the Mountain Training Association.

00:40:12:12 – 00:40:38:23
Speaker 4
Because although we’ve, we’ve had some good safety advice and what have you, I think now is the time for us to, to get all of that stuff, done. So, you know, that that just challenges of, of of growth and, and how, you know, to, to to put this on a good footing because God just seems to be showing us that, you know, this isn’t just for a period of time.

00:40:38:23 – 00:40:41:02
Speaker 4
This is that this is.

00:40:41:04 – 00:40:42:11
Speaker 3
For such a time as this.

00:40:42:13 – 00:40:45:03
Speaker 4
Such a time as this. This is only going to grow.

00:40:45:05 – 00:41:15:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you mentioned about, one of the folks saying, about that this is their church. And I was I was kind of thinking, about for, for a lot of folk in the, a lot of people in their fresh expressions movement who aren’t part of, and in the sort of Anglican denominations that are very much an attraction model.

00:41:15:10 – 00:41:40:11
Speaker 3
It’s that I guess it’s also the challenge one can perceive. Forgive me if I’m putting words in your mouth, so don’t tell me if this is totally off base. But I think it’s it’s also. Well, yes, you have a responsibility for grace, but it’s also realizing, what does that grace look like? And having the the the ability or the, the ability, the challenge is letting that growth happen.

00:41:40:11 – 00:42:26:02
Speaker 3
But and like we said before about not letting the institution get in the way of that, and the structures and the processes get in the way. And then what does church end up looking like as a result of that? Because, you know, it’s not always about filling pews and getting bums on seats. Often it’s about ultimately it’s about introducing people to Jesus and, walking alongside people on their journeys, and showing them that we worship the God who walks alongside them also, which then brings beautiful stuff back into the whole idea of that walk along the roads and the safety and all of that stuff.

00:42:26:02 – 00:42:26:24
Speaker 3
But yeah.

00:42:27:00 – 00:43:00:04
Speaker 4
No. Absolutely. And, and I think a couple of things come to mind. It’s, in that metaphor of the wild meadow that, that, you know, Steve uses so powerfully is that there is a letting go that happens. You know, I’ve actually been a manager all my life, either in retailing. No, or the arts that management. And.

00:43:00:06 – 00:43:11:23
Speaker 4
I can’t control everything that happens on that worship in the wild because people are having conversations as a part of their act of worship.

00:43:12:00 – 00:43:12:24
Speaker 3

00:43:13:01 – 00:43:43:10
Speaker 4
So, you know, I have to trust that, you know, God is at work in those conversations and that sometimes I engineer things for sure. I’ll say on the next section, you know, might I suggest you you work with somebody that you haven’t worked with before, you know, whatever. You know, there is there’s some manipulation that, you know, that might go on, you know, in that way.

00:43:43:10 – 00:44:07:07
Speaker 4
But ultimately, you know, you’re not the only voice, are you, you know, up front to what have you. And I think that that models that bigger picture, too, that we have to let go and allow God to be guard and and do what he does, bring who he brings. I never get as anxious now as I used to about either success or the numbers.

00:44:07:07 – 00:44:37:05
Speaker 4
It could, because I honestly believe that God brings who he brings and and there’s always a blessing, you know, there’s always somebody who at the end, you know, discloses who that they’ve had the most powerful experience, you know, in a way that I could have never engineered in my life, you know, and the other thing is you brought up earlier, you know, people are in very different contexts.

00:44:37:07 – 00:45:15:21
Speaker 4
I thought from time to time, you know, would I have done this in Liverpool and could I have done this in Liverpool? And I think I could, I think I could, you know, we we had all kinds of different environments really close to us. The walking along the banks of the River Mersey or, or around the park or or actually around the streets or through town or through, you know, all kinds of places actually, that I think, oh, if I’d have had the time, the imagination.

00:45:15:21 – 00:45:16:11
Speaker 3

00:45:16:13 – 00:45:25:12
Speaker 4
You know. Yeah, I think I could have done this, but then you can’t have those regrets because God was using me in a different way.

00:45:25:14 – 00:45:28:02
Speaker 3
Well, yeah. The season and it moves, isn’t it?

00:45:28:04 – 00:45:52:17
Speaker 4
Yes, I think I think we are. You know, we are blessed here. There is a contextual thing here with being, you know, where we are. But I think, yes, that it is possible to, to do it in different contexts. If, if that’s where that particular battle is ringing, you know, whether, you know, it’s not going to be for everybody, is it.

00:45:52:17 – 00:45:58:21
Speaker 4
But know if it’s chiming with anybody. Yes. I don’t think you have to be here to do.

00:45:58:23 – 00:46:03:16
Speaker 3
I think that leads us on nicely. We are technically over time.

00:46:03:18 – 00:46:04:08
Speaker 4
Oh, right.

00:46:04:08 – 00:46:31:12
Speaker 3
Sorry I’m so busy. Is not at all. It’s. My job is to keep time. So not yours is. But it’s been beautifully hearing what you’ve been saying. There’s there’s a couple of questions that we normally ask people, and I think you’ve, you’ve sort of indicated a few things about your hopes for the future in, in how you’ve been talking about it and just the I think people can see where growth happens for you.

00:46:31:14 – 00:46:54:11
Speaker 3
So but the question I want to ask, which I, I want to make sure that we ask everyone, is what would you say to other folk who might be starting out on their journey, might be hearing the little niggling nudges of From God to say, hey, go and start something, or might be might have an idea but haven’t yet got there yet.

00:46:54:14 – 00:46:58:21
Speaker 3
What’s what the things you’d say to them. And I’ll give you a couple of minutes.

00:46:58:23 – 00:47:30:03
Speaker 4
Minutes, encouragement. And finding, trusted people that you can pray with them, and I have been blessed but with encourages and, and those who’ve been willing to let me have a go, and, and not to fear failure, because then, you know, you know, you’re not taking the risk of faith on you.

00:47:30:05 – 00:47:56:17
Speaker 4
And, and if you really feel that niggling pull to decide to do something, then you have to listen to it, pray about it, but find, find, you know, those encouragers. And we started with four and that was only actually we started with two. It was someone who I who I had started working with myself with, for another couple of people.

00:47:56:19 – 00:47:58:15
Speaker 4
And Scott does.

00:47:58:17 – 00:48:26:20
Speaker 3
That’s a common thread that we’re hearing again, like sometimes just start with one person, if that’s all it is. Arrow. Thank you so much again for coming on the podcast and sharing some really wonderful stories, and making me very envious of where you get to to be and live. While I look out my window. It’s the cityscape of London, which is beautiful in itself, but it is a challenge to me.

00:48:26:22 – 00:48:49:12
Speaker 3
There is the challenge of like the stuff that is in London is is still rife and for adventure, isn’t it? But thank you for your time to be blessed. And until next time, thank you.

00:48:49:14 – 00:49:00:09
Speaker 3
Good stuff. And. Well, thank you so much. That’s great. I can let you go. I’ve got some that is in the background, so I’m going to go have a chat with her. About what? You and I just chatted, but, You’re done.

00:49:00:11 – 00:49:01:03
Speaker 4
Thank you.

00:49:01:08 – 00:49:07:07
Speaker 3
Brilliant. Bless you mate. Bye. See you.

00:49:07:09 – 00:49:09:18
Speaker 4
Who?

00:49:09:20 – 00:49:13:09
Speaker 3
My time streaming is keeping is terrible.

00:49:13:11 – 00:49:24:10
Speaker 1
It’s so hot. It’s so hard, though, with the, With just when the conversation is just rich and it’s just hard to to to keep on.

00:49:24:12 – 00:49:25:13
Speaker 4
To keep on that.

00:49:25:15 – 00:49:49:03
Speaker 3
It’s. I’m going to. Sorry, but I’m going to I’m going to welcome you back again in a second of notice. With previous episodes, just as I’ve been editing them, the transition from that section to this section is, has been a bit tricky to sort of segue them, so I’m just going to I know this isn’t the most authentic, but hey.

00:49:49:05 – 00:49:52:16
Speaker 3
So, Beth, how are we doing?

00:49:52:18 – 00:50:24:00
Speaker 1
Good. Thank you. Wow. That was just, It’s such a blessing to be able to sit and just listen to these conversations and, let them back and watch how organically what God is doing in people’s lives and how they’re joining in. She used that language quite, quite richly and a lot throughout. It’s just, it’s just so good for the soul to just hear these stories.

00:50:24:00 – 00:51:05:21
Speaker 1
And I think there is this real pattern that’s emerging in my eyes anyway, I’ve just this desire to to kind of ground ourselves really early on, she wrote. She talked about roots and, and I, I was thinking a lot throughout that, you know, what are we where do we root ourselves and what and what do we root ourselves and thinking so much about being grounded and the earth and and how, you know, a bit, you know, buildings come and go with, you know, can be part of that.

00:51:06:00 – 00:51:31:13
Speaker 1
I think they can be non-existent. But ultimately there’s just something about, you know, kind of being touching that, that community, that ground where, you know, where we’re serving and just seeing what God’s going to do with that and not placing expectations on it, not having a prescription for how it’s going to go. You know, we are there to sometimes help move things along.

00:51:31:17 – 00:51:51:13
Speaker 1
And I she mentioned that briefly in the end, didn’t she, about the walks, about, you know, sometimes we have to be a little bit of a facilitator actually just being on that ground and allowing God to use that and joining in with what God is already doing and removing ourselves out of the way, I think, is I really felt that is a really strong sense that I wrote down.

00:51:51:13 – 00:51:53:23
Speaker 1
And as I was listening.

00:51:54:00 – 00:52:23:13
Speaker 3
I was I was struck by, and it’s probably because we we had that conversation with Sarah the other day about the world and world stuff and all the rural movement, and which is in some ways, I do find it tricky to sort of flip flop between this thing because, you know, as I said, you know, I live in a I’ve always lived in cities and, and I love the convenience in the city and, but I love being in nature.

00:52:23:13 – 00:52:51:15
Speaker 3
And I always feel easiest. My most easy way of connecting with God is in nature. When I find myself just naturally talking to God is when I’m in nature and when I’m out of the city. And the bustle and all that kind of thing. And there is this thing of, so just with, with the, the rural hub that we’ve got that’s, exists and the fresh expressions movement.

00:52:51:17 – 00:53:31:11
Speaker 3
And there’s also the stuff around Sabbath, and just this idea of, the land affecting us, you know, and being in touch with the land and the, the so be it’s those who might, I’m thinking of some some friends down in Bristol who, have a small church that’s based around the farm. And it’s all the, the physical thing of touching and getting your hands in the earth, and so getting your feet on the ground in.

00:53:31:13 – 00:53:57:16
Speaker 3
I’m not trying to be negative about cities or anything, but just this is my discourse at the moment. Just like, yeah, for me getting out there, there, there is this movement of people that are and it’s growing people realizing just connecting with the land. And that connecting with God, you know, and also Aaron sort of mentioned as well, like sometimes there are people who are not necessarily people who are Christians, but people who are spiritual.

00:53:57:18 – 00:54:08:03
Speaker 3
And I think that that’s also really prevalent, you know, that having that space and sharing that space and sharing that experience with people is interesting as well. I think,

00:54:08:05 – 00:54:30:01
Speaker 1
And it feels so very early church and, you know, people, you know, even all the Old Testament families and communities, this that was what they were. They were out in, in. Yeah. And it may not have been like the mountains like in Wales or you know, in, you know, wherever. But and it was a very different landscape. But that’s the church that they lived.

00:54:30:01 – 00:54:53:13
Speaker 1
They were they lived according to the weather and the earth and the ground that they literally worked on and farmed or lived off or and I think there’s something kind of be talking about going to that. And, not being there, but I love that she, that there was never like, a negativity towards what I’ve been given to her.

00:54:53:13 – 00:55:17:16
Speaker 1
And she was very, open about them, blessed about the resources that she was given, and what that can do to serve us, but used creation in that, too. It wasn’t like, oh, you know, the scenery was and added the scenery was almost part of like the building, you know, in the places and too and I and I don’t think we ever consider that, you know, whether that be city or rural, I think.

00:55:17:16 – 00:55:57:12
Speaker 1
Do we, when we are cool to a place or when we are perhaps ordained to a, you know, geography, a geographical space, do we consider, you know, whether that is a, you know, an urban space with a river that might be more commercially used with shops and cities or whether it be more flats and, and, and a housing estate, or if it is a church or on a mountain or a church in a small village, like do we consider as well the, the, the what is around us, whether we have national parks or whether we have, you know, massive allotments or, or whether we have short communities like, it speaks so much about

00:55:57:12 – 00:56:28:11
Speaker 1
actually being really aware of, not just perhaps the the building that’s been gifted to us and the people in the community, but that wider sense, as well as what has been gifted to us in the, in that area, and, and relying on that and that’s a, it’s that kind of is challenged me quite heavily about, you know, thinking about what’s been gifted around me that I can use to connect with our community and what can we, step into.

00:56:28:11 – 00:56:37:12
Speaker 1
And it was never really about what I’ve not what she hasn’t got or but it’s what God has given her and how to use that. And in the best way.

00:56:37:14 – 00:57:06:16
Speaker 3
I think that the biggest point for me and I might be repeating myself, but the biggest point for me is the. It’s the idea that when she was talking about, the church building, unlike no electricity and just using what they’ve got and it’s not quite this, it’s not quite that. It’s just this, this thing, but it’s it’s the idea of of changing, changing space.

00:57:06:18 – 00:57:48:24
Speaker 3
And when you, when you physically change a space that you know, there’s a gear change in your head, I just keep coming back to this, that idea. And how how does that translate for different contexts? So how does that work in a, in an urban context, for instance? And I guess one of the ideas I was thinking about when we were talking about, our theology of welcome, you know, our, you know, if our welcome, if we are in a more urban context or city context, does our welcome do that same thing that when you walk into a, or you come around the corner and you see this vista, it

00:57:48:24 – 00:58:15:14
Speaker 3
stops you in your tracks and get like, oh, something’s different here. Yeah. And maybe the that’s the, the, the connection and that similarity. It’s like part of our thing is to, is to change the frame of mind for, I guess mental. Is it? Maybe what I’m talking about is the preparation of preparing to worship. I guess, you know, and sometimes stopping, this is a moment with God, I don’t know, I feel I’m waffling quite a bit today.

00:58:15:16 – 00:58:45:20
Speaker 1
No, no, no, that that makes complete sense. I think, it. Yeah, I there’s, I think this one not that the others having caused me to reflect more, but I think this one there’s so much there is a lot of food to like, ponder on and things to hold perhaps more, more so things that have, I think can be really stirring and something for us to reflect on.

00:58:45:20 – 00:59:16:15
Speaker 1
And I think the pace of things as well is really key. And I think that’s come out in a few of the other conversations. We’ve had a just about, not rushing into, you know, something being okay with having no congregation. And then for all then however that grows, it’s kind of being, being content with, you know, working and joining in where God is right now and not trying to fit our own agenda onto something.

00:59:16:15 – 00:59:18:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. So great.

00:59:18:12 – 00:59:40:11
Speaker 3
So indeed, I think that the one last point I want to make is, I was thinking about was just, again, that because of her, the this of the church in the 19 and what is is not a city that you’ve enjoyed this. So please consider writing us in your podcast. That will really help in other people find that one cast.

00:59:40:13 – 00:59:55:01
Speaker 3
Also, if you want to get in touch and join the conversation, encourage different ways of doing that. Their website urged the Mission Show podcast.com, which will bring you to the website.

00:59:55:03 – 00:59:58:19
Unknown
And get. The place.

00:59:58:21 – 01:00:21:23
Speaker 3
Is the place you. Really? But there we go. I think we we need to wrap up, Yeah, we just finished this episode. Gosh, a lot to think about. This is brilliant. Every time. There. Thank you again.

01:00:22:00 – 01:00:23:12
Speaker 1
I thank you.

01:00:23:14 – 01:00:25:06
Speaker 3
We’ll speak again at the next one.

01:00:25:08 – 01:00:26:21
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:00:26:23 – 01:00:28:12
Speaker 3
Take it easy. Yeah.

01:00:28:14 – 01:00:29:03
Speaker 1
Bye, everyone.