![You are currently viewing Ep 005 [Stories] Neal And Nicky Goodwin – Staying the course](https://freshexpressions.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ToPrem-TMSP-Season01-Ep05-Goodwins-copy.jpg)
Neal & Nicky Goodwin know quite a bit about this doing church in different ways having been doing it for decades. Their story is humble and beautiful and is all about the long-term effects of deep-commitment to their community.
Arc Church – arcchurch.uk
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Transcript (Automated)
00:00:06:22 – 00:00:27:15
Speaker 1
Hello. You are joining us back at the Mission Shaped Podcast. In this episode, Mark will be chatting with New and Nikki Goodwin. Hearing the story about staying the course.
00:00:27:17 – 00:00:29:19
Speaker 2
Good morning guys. How are we doing?
00:00:29:21 – 00:00:30:18
Speaker 3
We’re doing fine. Thank you.
00:00:30:21 – 00:00:31:18
Speaker 4
Thank you.
00:00:31:20 – 00:00:33:00
Speaker 2
Why don’t you tell us about yourselves?
00:00:33:01 – 00:01:03:01
Speaker 4
So I’m originally from, Hampshire in the New Forest, and it’s Neil from Sutton Coldfield in Birmingham. We met in Hampshire and, then spent the first five years of my life in Romania and then landed in, Nottinghamshire on the Derbyshire border and then here in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, back in 2008. So it does seem a long time ago.
00:01:03:01 – 00:01:19:24
Speaker 4
So we’ve been here in this, this area for 14 years. In terms of our fresh expression, we call ourselves Ark Church. And Ark is action, relationships, connections. That’s what we’re all about.
00:01:20:03 – 00:01:21:06
Speaker 3
Nice.
00:01:21:08 – 00:01:51:12
Speaker 4
And, we we gather in our home on a Monday evening, and we, gather round food, and, usually. And you uses a tool called out of the box just to bring some spiritual, element to to the evening. But from that space, from that place, we, have lots and lots of connections with our community which have been built up over many, many years.
00:01:51:14 – 00:02:12:13
Speaker 2
Awesome. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your a bit more about your journey. So we’ve heard a lot about things like being in Romania, being in other places. What led you to be what led you to to to starting Ark Church and and how did how did it come about?
00:02:12:15 – 00:02:13:03
Speaker 4
Your turn.
00:02:13:03 – 00:02:38:06
Speaker 3
Well, I think, a lot of it can come go back to our missionary experience. Because, we were missionaries for almost five years. I went into all the details of how all that happened, but we we were actually did what most missionaries do and try and, connect with the community, with the culture that they’re in.
00:02:38:08 – 00:03:12:04
Speaker 3
And I think when we came back, that served us very well. We were, part of another in the church in, in Nottinghamshire for, for a while. Jack style. That was a sort of a nobody ever heard of us is just a small village, but, it was a great community and a wonderfully warm welcome from them, and helped us through the transition of being missionaries and returning to the UK, which is it’s, you know, a huge, huge culture shock to, to come back to.
00:03:12:04 – 00:03:17:12
Speaker 2
Was it when you say you were missionaries, was a roommate when you were in Romania? Was that where your mission field was?
00:03:17:14 – 00:03:19:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. And I think.
00:03:19:17 – 00:03:31:15
Speaker 2
It’s it’s probably worth a minute or so on. What that was so people can get the context because you said it sort of equipped you for this stuff. So, yeah, if you can quantify that a little bit would be great.
00:03:31:17 – 00:04:02:10
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we kind of done so I said that we met in Milton in Hampshire back in 98 when 97 actually 97. And at that time, at the point we met, I was actually on my way out to Romania as a missionary. So we kind of did a long distance relationship for the festivals out there. And, came back in the middle of all of that and got married and came back to my wedding organized.
00:04:02:13 – 00:04:24:05
Speaker 4
Although, needless to say, I left the list very excited. And then, yeah, basically and just felt very much that God is calling us both out there. And this is the guy that had, never left the country before, didn’t even have a passport. So first God visited was Romania. And that’s where we went on honeymoon.
00:04:24:08 – 00:04:29:11
Speaker 4
So. And yeah, I mean, he, he, had quite a.
00:04:29:16 – 00:04:30:22
Speaker 3
Quite kosher.
00:04:30:22 – 00:04:52:11
Speaker 4
Shot, didn’t you? But yeah, in terms of Romania, we worked with, a church called, in English, the Church of Good News, Sarah Cabana. That’s the area, with an amazing couple, Katrine and Alina. And we were on their leadership team. And as part of the work that we did out there, we were in the street kids, with children and youth.
00:04:52:11 – 00:05:18:17
Speaker 4
And we had special responsibility for evangelism. So that kind of gave us very much a grounding in what we now do. We’re pretty much pioneers. Which most fresh expressions people are. And so. Yeah. So we spent to get I was out there on my own, most mostly for the first year and then together after we got married for, for four years.
00:05:18:19 – 00:05:24:04
Speaker 4
Then I also really good grounding. Yeah. Also, we ran out for out there.
00:05:24:06 – 00:05:25:06
Speaker 2
But.
00:05:25:08 – 00:05:49:12
Speaker 4
Yeah, so kind of gave us gave us a, you know, the grounding we needed really, for future ministry. And then when we came back from there, so Neil said we landed in Jack’s now. But you ended up through the connections there, going and training and doing a degree in Christian leadership. And it was then, to see your Bible college in Retford.
00:05:49:14 – 00:06:16:03
Speaker 4
That we met people from Rotherham, and that’s how we came to be here in Rotherham. We basically got an invitation to come up with work as part of the leadership team of the Hub. What was Rotherham new life then but became the hub Christian community? And again, lots of responsibility for community. And so just building on our, our previous experience in terms of Romania.
00:06:16:05 – 00:06:42:22
Speaker 4
That was a, that was a post that wasn’t funded. So we had to do a bit of tent making. And we were really, really fortunate because, I was invited to actually become a lay worker for the Methodist Church and ended up, becoming, children’s worker for our local Methodist circuit. The guy who was the superintendent at the time and my life manager.
00:06:42:24 – 00:06:57:22
Speaker 4
Fantastic guy, Alice Alister Sharp. He, basically just said our priority was brother new life. He didn’t need me to be around on Sundays. I could concentrate on being a new life with Neil on a Sunday and just the whole.
00:06:57:24 – 00:06:58:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, breaking the.
00:06:58:21 – 00:07:23:23
Speaker 4
Kingdom mentality between both the leaders. It it brought him, new life and my line manager. The kingdom mentality was, was phenomenal. And we kind of got on board with all of that very much have a kingdom mentality ourselves. So yeah. So we really that was the foundation of, of the start of, of our work here now with our fresh expression.
00:07:24:00 – 00:07:45:10
Speaker 4
We had a lot of good input for good leaders, and a lot of experiences within the community that meant that over many years we’ve built relationships. And, so when the when the finished, it might see and we were invited to move to Rotherham, we pacifically came to the community in which we live, which is called Marsh, which is on the north side of Rotherham.
00:07:45:12 – 00:07:54:04
Speaker 4
About 20,000 people here. And at that time rolls a new life. We’re looking to do missional community.
00:07:54:06 – 00:08:00:23
Speaker 2
So, so you do you say so you’d been living there already. So you were moving your ministry?
00:08:01:00 – 00:08:10:22
Speaker 4
No, we know we actually went when we were invited to come in 2008. We literally came came to this this place, Royal Marsh. So, so prior to that, we’ve been living it.
00:08:10:22 – 00:08:12:05
Speaker 3
We do have the road.
00:08:12:07 – 00:08:14:02
Speaker 4
And yeah, we.
00:08:14:02 – 00:08:15:09
Speaker 3
Kind of used to go.
00:08:15:11 – 00:08:22:13
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. So we’ve been here 15 years and for five years we lived on one side of the street. And then ten years ago we moved to the other side of.
00:08:22:15 – 00:08:26:04
Speaker 2
That has significant have significant was crossing the road was.
00:08:26:04 – 00:08:49:00
Speaker 4
A bit it was very significant actually because the. No seriously, the house was actually the difference in the two houses. It felt like this house was a gift from God. Because it’s just been the hub of our ministry. And at the house across the road worked, but not as well as this house. This this was hugely significant.
00:08:49:02 – 00:09:13:04
Speaker 4
I wasn’t intending to move. And so the, we we rent our home. So saw the board go up and like, oh, okay. Kind of prayed about it. Didn’t really talk about it much, but found ourselves kind of, coming and looking. And I said to God, if we meant to have this house, then I’ll know as soon as I walk over the threshold.
00:09:13:06 – 00:09:31:03
Speaker 4
And unbeknownst to me, Neil had said the same thing to God. And it was only when we came together afterwards and when we need to be in that house. Then we shared what we’ve been saying to God and found that we’d said the same thing. So yeah, it was just clear. And it has it’s been very significant to ministry.
00:09:31:05 – 00:09:32:05
Speaker 4
00:09:32:07 – 00:10:05:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. So then going going back to sort of the, the does, I realize I sort of, interrupted a little bit, sort of trying to get some of the backstory of, of going from missionaries into to starting. We have a little bit about the house. So, yeah, I guess tell us, a bit more again, about the because I realize that there’s a theme that seems to be ongoing with the more stories you hear about other people who are in the fresh Expressions movement, what you start with is not always what you end up with.
00:10:05:10 – 00:10:11:17
Speaker 2
So tell us a bit more of what you, what you started with and how you got to where you are now.
00:10:11:19 – 00:10:35:11
Speaker 3
So what I think that having spent in general for a lot of the mission reason that happens on in the mission field as well. So I know lots of missionaries just don’t know how to do this. When these people grow up and, and whatever. And then they get their, six months to 12 months later, they suddenly encounter anybody and saying, actually, we’ve realized that there’s another people we know nothing about and we’re going to go and work with them.
00:10:35:13 – 00:10:54:16
Speaker 3
And then I think sometimes God used you to get to an area. So, so for us, the, the, the church, the, hub church was just launching some commercial communities. And basically that’s generally what it says. A group of people gathering together, trying to just.
00:10:54:18 – 00:10:55:08
Speaker 4
That’s.
00:10:55:10 – 00:10:58:11
Speaker 3
For their community. And they had that that’s,
00:10:58:13 – 00:11:07:16
Speaker 4
Why we ended up here in rural Scotland. Because that when, when we came here in 2008 role Marshall mission community was what they wanted us to lead basically.
00:11:07:18 – 00:11:32:20
Speaker 3
So so we did that, sort of I don’t know how successful that was. It was a bit sort of, a lot more traditional probably than than what we would actually than what we do now. Yeah. And we still had a bit of that mentality of, oh, we’ll put it on and people will come. So we, you know, we are that sort of local, the niche roles and church roles several times.
00:11:32:20 – 00:11:38:09
Speaker 3
And sort of it was that we came because one.
00:11:38:11 – 00:11:40:00
Speaker 4
Just wanted to meet the people.
00:11:40:02 – 00:12:00:24
Speaker 3
Well, then we choose to come, and so some we change tack. Bates and, Nicky’s job with the Methodist church helps and that we, she went to the schools and said, well, how can we serve you? They didn’t say, oh, we can do this. Suddenly that just how can we serve these? And so school that she went into, said, oh, great.
00:12:00:24 – 00:12:24:22
Speaker 3
You know, you can come in and do, some, some bits and pieces. So, we did eventually became a governor about schools. And then, that then the schools were just developed from there. It changed, a little bit, over the years of the what they’re after, because of the way that we, we did it, and we really relaunched the so called the routine.
00:12:24:24 – 00:12:37:13
Speaker 3
And actually we went into all the schools in Royal Marsh, all the primary schools doing assemblies, lessons, taking some garden play into school and having the schools come back.
00:12:37:15 – 00:12:38:11
Speaker 4
And.
00:12:38:13 – 00:12:49:12
Speaker 3
We did prayer spaces and, and actually, I think how did that really, really help? Because sometimes you need sort of a link a keen to the community.
00:12:49:14 – 00:12:53:03
Speaker 4
Called gateway into the community was that education was the key thing.
00:12:53:04 – 00:13:04:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s what, what really, really helped us to to sort of get to know people in the community yet and initially when someone is the school trustee, then you know, she was well,
00:13:05:00 – 00:13:26:24
Speaker 4
And I have to, I think is part of that as well. And the journey with, with the hub Christian community, the leadership of the dusty opportunity to, do some further training. And that’s how we came across fresh expressions because, we were offered two joint choices. We were, we could go and do the AOG because, the hub Christian community was part of Assemblies of God.
00:13:26:24 – 00:13:29:17
Speaker 4
So we could go into the church planting course.
00:13:29:21 – 00:13:31:17
Speaker 3
Which they pay for one of us to go and do.
00:13:31:22 – 00:13:51:22
Speaker 4
Or we could go and do, fresh expressions, mission shake, Ministry course, which both of us could do. Yeah. What we opted for mission shaped ministry so that that’s that’s how we came across fresh expressions and have been on the fresh expressions journey ever since then.
00:13:51:22 – 00:14:03:09
Speaker 3
Of course, we know nothing. You know, we did everything differently to everybody else as usual. And they came to do the module on on children’s work and find that turn. However responsibility, they couldn’t lead it and asked us to lead it.
00:14:03:09 – 00:14:11:14
Speaker 4
So we were doing the course that ended up doing the children’s module leadership. I it’s like, okay.
00:14:11:16 – 00:14:19:05
Speaker 2
It’s a common thread, I think, in most people’s sort of ministry is just like when you start one thing, it suddenly evolves into something else.
00:14:19:07 – 00:14:20:23
Speaker 3
The leaders absolutely does.
00:14:21:01 – 00:14:45:11
Speaker 4
So yeah. So lots, lots and lots of relationship was birthed through the mission community that we were heading up here. Obviously did the Mission Ministry course through the hub. We did things like cafe, church, and yeah, we, we used the local Costa Coffee. We did our food courses. They, they continued. So we’ve done them in Romania.
00:14:45:11 – 00:15:12:21
Speaker 4
They continued here. And things just evolved. But as they were evolving things, things were changing as well. And we we had a very clear vision of, you know, God wanting us to be in this community. You know, God wanting us to live and be part of this community and just really get stuck in, and as that was happening, the leadership at the hub was changing as well.
00:15:12:23 – 00:15:38:05
Speaker 4
And also the leadership within the Methodist Church. Alistair was moving on and obviously my, my role was funded. So all these things collided at once. And, Alistair moved on and the funding kind of we said to the point he moved on. I’d been in the role by this point for nine, nine years. We basically said, we don’t need to find any more funding.
00:15:38:07 – 00:16:02:13
Speaker 4
We all kind of, you know, if you’re happy as a board of trustees, could be our team was a charity to let us take it on. We’ll take it on. We don’t need you to worry about for the funding and stuff at the same time as that was all happening, the leadership at the hub was changing. So we kind of, you know, but we’ve been very, very, as we’ve mentioned, kingdom mentality.
00:16:02:13 – 00:16:24:24
Speaker 4
But also we are people who really, really abdicate to do things well and to do things right. So when the new leaders came in, we met, the guy that took over, he, he met with all the key leadership team at the hub. And we told him from day one that this is what our vision is, but we’re not going to actually do anything about that.
00:16:24:24 – 00:16:46:05
Speaker 4
We will work with you for a year. And just see how God leads us. And if at the end of that year your vision is different to us, then will you, you know, release us and allow us to do closure, with the hub and move on and that and that’s basically what we did. You know, we honored him.
00:16:46:07 – 00:17:13:12
Speaker 4
He honored us. And we did closure with The Hub in 2017, because at the end of that year that we talked about, it was clear that, the hub were going in a different direction to us. And it was clear that God wanted us to just really full time focus here. We also had, the ongoing issue in the background of, you know, everything we do, we do in a voluntary capacity.
00:17:13:14 – 00:17:44:04
Speaker 4
So, how do we fund what we do? So right back in 2008, we were introduced to the world of fostering, and in a nutshell, we’ve not been able to have a family. So Rob and them dwell on that. We kind of turn that what could have been a really difficult well, it was a difficult time, grief, grieving, etc., but kind of turned that into a positive and opened up our home to foster children and so on.
00:17:44:04 – 00:18:18:09
Speaker 4
The to to to two ministries have really, really complementing one another. So we’ve been able to fund what we do through being foster carers. And so with that’s happening still today, although we’ve just retired from fostering and now a what’s called shared life carers. But that’s basically how we fund what we do because we are first and foremost, shared lives, carers, but where was the role being 24 seven and being able to be from our home?
00:18:18:11 – 00:18:25:00
Speaker 4
It means we can do all the stuff we do in the whole city. So yeah.
00:18:25:02 – 00:18:48:21
Speaker 2
So what does that’s that’s amazing. But that is yeah, I realize funding for a lot of people is, is always a big challenge. And people often worry and wonder what happens. I always love though, hearing the stories and all the different creative ways that that people who come over these issues and how how God steps in, in some really creative ways.
00:18:48:21 – 00:18:54:16
Speaker 2
It’s always amazing. So how’s it going? What’s it look like now?
00:18:54:18 – 00:18:56:02
Speaker 4
Amen.
00:18:56:04 – 00:19:25:00
Speaker 3
Well, it’s, it’s very interesting, actually, because, we feel very much as though we are embedded in the, in, in the community. And, and I think the, the latest thing that we’ve just started, which is interesting because I’ve just, the as pioneers, the big dangerous rushing to start lots of new things. And actually, sometimes we need to stop and step back.
00:19:25:00 – 00:19:47:02
Speaker 3
And so initially when we came, we, we started by joining in with what was already there. We joined other groups and, and got ourselves involved in that. And but now a part of that part, one of those things was a local running group. And so Nick is Nick is the runner. I came on this because I enjoy photography.
00:19:47:02 – 00:19:57:23
Speaker 3
So I said, I’ll be the part. And they said, what would you be? The club photographer. So, you know, that means that’s great because I don’t have to run, but I can just go out and take photos and.
00:19:58:03 – 00:20:00:17
Speaker 2
I’ll probably be on your side. Neil.
00:20:00:19 – 00:20:28:01
Speaker 3
That’s so, so it’s been great because we’ve built up some really great friendships. And, I think that’s, that’s really, really helped us. They’re very proactive in the community, as a group of people. And so that just works really well for us because obviously we want to be proactive in the community. And noticing that we’ve started, you know,
00:20:28:03 – 00:20:30:14
Speaker 4
Let’s kind of at least come about by with all the relationships.
00:20:30:14 – 00:21:02:12
Speaker 3
With all the relationships is, is a two bank and the Trussell Trust, we it sort of it wasn’t intended that way. A lot of things, within a, a different way. And then slowly it all changed. And so that launched, beginning in November. And, that has been really sort of significant because all the relationship that we’ve built up over the years, means that sort of there’s a there’s an element of trust in that.
00:21:02:12 – 00:21:35:04
Speaker 3
There’s people that we but we’ve never met before. I just think there’s an overriding element of trust. We’ve got loads of, lots of volunteers that, are willing to journey with this and, and already talk about it. And that is a we know the food bank family. And I say their words does and, and it’s just sort of and and there’s 1 or 2 of those that I’ve had some, Christian, connection in the past and, I no longer, one them anywhere near church.
00:21:35:04 – 00:21:57:12
Speaker 3
So that gives you a little bit of sort of, you know, okay. Well, there might be some possibilities of, of building that kind of spiritual relationships at some point range from. But I can we never we never push them aside because it’s, you know, God is able to work and sort of, you know, he’ll bring about the right connections and, and the right conversations at the right time.
00:21:57:14 – 00:22:19:12
Speaker 3
So, that’s really well, we’re, you know, it’s quite it’s almost quite embarrassing, actually, because we are we are inundated with so much food because people in this community are so generous. And, and I think partly because I think a lot of people are this is a very deprived community, but a lot of people have probably been there.
00:22:19:12 – 00:22:40:08
Speaker 3
I’ve probably, at some point in their past have been in that position where actually they haven’t had much and there’s been no one for them. And so, you know, just, just we have got sort of where about 4 or 5 donation to, to to process when we go in this evening, you know, to, to set up the shelves again and it’s almost like, you know, as soon as.
00:22:40:10 – 00:22:41:02
Speaker 4
We get it back.
00:22:41:02 – 00:22:53:20
Speaker 3
It’s gonna be back in again and, and sort of now obviously, what a where the back could easily change, particularly in January. But, I just think God has been just so, so gracious and good for us to be able to do that.
00:22:53:22 – 00:23:17:14
Speaker 4
We are this is we’ve got the two things running, haven’t we? We’ve got the gathering running on a Monday night. Yeah. And then Thursday. So I’ve got the food bank. But the food bank is obviously a massive project, and, and I think it’s quite important to highlight, as part of the discussion at this point that, we did become, and have become a registered charity is our church.
00:23:17:16 – 00:23:38:17
Speaker 4
So we that’s enabled us to actually take out a franchise with the Trussell Trust, who we run the state Bank through. But it gives us like because we’ve stepped away from AOG, so we’re not we’re not connected with the denomination now, kind of aligned with fresh expressions. And we’ll do our utmost to prioritize the fresh expression stuff.
00:23:38:17 – 00:24:02:08
Speaker 4
So we make sure we get to the gatherings. We we make sure we tap into any other stuff online. We try and connect with people within fresh expressions to look after ourselves on the journey. But the the charity thing gives us that accountability is just that credibility. And for us as a married couple, we’ve got a group of trustees, that we are accountable to.
00:24:02:10 – 00:24:10:16
Speaker 4
So so all those things play into, the whole how we run things, how things are set up, make sure we’ve been.
00:24:10:16 – 00:24:35:18
Speaker 2
Had, how does the relationships sort of between, because because lots of people will know how food banks work or we’ll be familiar with food banks. And you’ve talked about the charity angle and sort of the, the this or that accountability angle of that, which is really wise and brilliant. How does it work for, for our church and how does that relationship work?
00:24:35:23 – 00:24:54:08
Speaker 2
Because I realize with, I’m, I’m not putting words in your mouth, but, with the food banks, you probably have a lot of folks who might have no faith not be interested in faith. And you sort of alluded to that a little bit. But how does that relationship then work with sort of our church?
00:24:54:08 – 00:25:20:07
Speaker 4
And I’ve been clear from the beginning that the food bank is part of the Ark Church family, because at the moment the food bank is not its own, identity. It’s it because Ark is the registered charity, the food bank has had to come under the family of Ark. Yeah. And so? So everything we do, Ark is kind of the name dimensioned.
00:25:20:09 – 00:25:47:06
Speaker 4
So, so, yeah, it’s so people now, people and and the people that come to our gathering, on a Monday evening, all through our connections in the community. So, and they all and now are connected in with the food bank we’re all serving together, whether that’s, you know, from the sideline, somebody just doing some admin stuff for us in the background or whether that’s actually being at food Bank.
00:25:47:08 – 00:26:04:17
Speaker 4
It’s not a whole Thursday. So so that that’s just evolved. We haven’t asked those people to be part of the bank. They’ve just gone on the journey with us, as we’ve said, the food bank cook. And there isn’t anybody that sits around the table on the Monday night that isn’t involved. So it’s all connected in it’s all links in.
00:26:04:17 – 00:26:23:24
Speaker 4
So kind of we meet together in a spiritual context, but then out of that we serve the community. But it’s, it’s also all the other people that are involved. So, you know, we’ve, we’ve built in, you know, over the years relationship with the local council. And he comes in volunteers and he’s totally involved with what we’re doing.
00:26:23:24 – 00:26:31:07
Speaker 4
And he is now, the inclusion under water.
00:26:31:09 – 00:26:37:00
Speaker 3
So he sits on a cabinet by cabinet.
00:26:37:02 – 00:27:00:06
Speaker 4
Full, you know, local authority. So the connections we’re getting through that, it’s just been all of them. Marshman knows we’ve got people from Roman. Is it coming to volunteer? It’s it’s literally, as Neil alluded to earlier, but years and years of connections. I called all the schools. They’re all on board. So we started the new year connections with the red team.
00:27:00:06 – 00:27:21:24
Speaker 4
It’s a we ran it that no longer runs because that naturally came to an end with the pandemic because we couldn’t going to schools. And then I was very seriously ill last year. So we’ve never got back on board of the red team. So it’s kind of naturally come to an end. But out of all the other stuff, this the food come, come to me.
00:27:21:24 – 00:27:31:03
Speaker 4
So, you know, it’s just all it’s just amazing how the food bank has bought years and years and years of relationships and connections all together at one place.
00:27:31:03 – 00:27:55:23
Speaker 3
I mean, I think for us, it’s the food bank to feed people. And, we don’t we don’t mention I don’t think about, Christianity or or any kind of, spiritual input. I think some people think, oh, we can use it as a great tool to sort of evangelize, but, I’m very much against that.
00:27:56:02 – 00:28:19:18
Speaker 3
In, in only in the terms of the fact that the I don’t want to hold people ransom, which tuned and since to start talking about it, if it comes up naturally in conversation and then that’s that will be fine. But I think there’s a danger in sort of trying to use that as an opportunity to ask people to come to church because people are going to say obligated because will you give them food?
00:28:19:20 – 00:28:21:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, it gets transactional, doesn’t it?
00:28:21:20 – 00:28:36:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And we don’t want it to be that way. These people are they’re pure necessity people. If in the fullness of time somebody says, fine, I’d like to, but I’d like to know more about church, that in fact, we have calls on public talent and, but.
00:28:36:09 – 00:28:40:17
Speaker 4
And also with it, the same prayer, if people were to ask to pray and happily pray would be.
00:28:40:20 – 00:28:57:02
Speaker 3
The vast majority of volunteers we have, aren’t Christians, as far as I know. So, you know, it’s sort of we we are there just to see people, but I think it gives us a bit of an inroad into, people’s lives at some point. One of.
00:28:57:02 – 00:29:15:20
Speaker 2
The angle of being sort of, instead of outright proselytizing is an old word. I know is it’s kind of a knee jerk spasm, like the you see where it I find it’s like, and but instead of sort of going that angle, it’s just the thing of just being Jesus, you know, and and being the light, you know, we don’t have to do anything.
00:29:16:00 – 00:29:32:24
Speaker 2
And allowing people to come on their own terms because, you know, again, like when I came back to faith, it was the relationships I made and seeing Jesus in those people, I wanted some of that. I knew what it was, but I had to go through my own process to get there. And so important.
00:29:33:01 – 00:29:47:03
Speaker 3
Absolute. You cannot force people to sort of, you know, no matter how you want to or you see the the chaos going on in my life, you think actually, if you’ve just accepted Jesus, but you can’t, it’s got a decision.
00:29:47:04 – 00:29:55:00
Speaker 4
You’ve got a you’ve got to come alongside people and accept people and meet people where they’re at. But then let the Holy Spirit do the work.
00:29:55:02 – 00:30:16:08
Speaker 3
Many, many years ago, I, I just had this session, got up and actually all me do it. It was about friendship. First. So, if you go out to build a friendship of sorts, with, with people, whatever that looks like, you stay as as friends. Now, if they want to know more about Christianity and things, then that’s fine.
00:30:16:12 – 00:30:54:18
Speaker 3
But, I’ve seen and heard too many stories where people have sort of thought somebody was a friend and now got invited. Church didn’t want to go. And then the friendship ended because actually that was the sole purpose. And it’s, well, friendship is is a friendship. Whether or not somebody comes to church and out, we try to do, one of the other things that we’re, we’re really excited about because it’s this, sort of this happening next Monday is, we’ve been there several years now of school carols around the campfire and we just lights, but the fire pit on our driveway and, basically saying carols.
00:30:54:18 – 00:30:56:16
Speaker 3
But because we got.
00:30:56:16 – 00:31:19:13
Speaker 4
Involved, we did this. This a probably been feels about 50 had we’ve done it. So the very first year it was just a handful of us stood on our driveway. We got a bit mad as Christmas lights. So our house is a bit illuminated. So just to passers by, and then second or 30 was similar. And obviously the pandemic had an impact on it.
00:31:19:13 – 00:31:39:01
Speaker 4
But last year royal naturalness, they do what’s called light up walk. So they look from our local park and they do walk with families and they’re all lit up. They come with all their like, nice things, and then they go round looking at all the lights. So, we arranged last year for them to land at our home.
00:31:39:03 – 00:31:56:13
Speaker 4
And we had, the people from Monday night here around the fire singing carols. As they arrive, we put on mulled wine, mince pies. Santa came to the kids. And it was so good. I mean, it was only about half an hour, 40 minutes, because obviously they’ve been out and a lot of them are in their running gear.
00:31:56:13 – 00:32:08:20
Speaker 4
So standing around that bit literally was 40, 40 minutes of just really, really great stuff. And it they just said, can we repeat it so that, that that’s happening on Monday night.
00:32:08:24 – 00:32:14:15
Speaker 3
Several people set up. That’s the whole night their Christmas was, was are we there last year, which were very nice.
00:32:14:17 – 00:32:31:00
Speaker 4
And so we’re doing doing similar. So so it’s it’s the opportunity just like you know just about 50 people I think booked on the run. And so on the walk. So they’ll all just land here. Just to speed up and bring some joy at Christmas.
00:32:31:02 – 00:32:54:24
Speaker 2
Amazing. There’s been a, a sort of a, a theme about and you kind of mentioned briefly early on about culture, and you’ve also said that things have organically shifted and changed. But how much of sort of the, the sort of Ark culture, if you like, have you been intentional about versus how much has just sort of formed organically?
00:32:54:24 – 00:32:57:12
Speaker 2
Would you say?
00:32:57:14 – 00:33:22:19
Speaker 3
I think we sort of pass up. We’ve been very intentional about, for instance, we, we call getting together on a Monday night gathering because, when we are, we’re always church. So when we gather together at church, when we’re not gathered together, we still church. And so we don’t refer to people as coming to church.
00:33:22:21 – 00:33:53:01
Speaker 3
It’s no all. Many engage in the community, in our workplaces where, wherever we happen to be, and actually we are gathering together, and so that was, that’s, really intentional. Only think we set out to do and we really intentional about building relationships with people. Because that is understood. The, the key to to everything we’ve had to out of necessity because we, we foster carers.
00:33:53:01 – 00:34:34:05
Speaker 3
Well, but foster carers and we hold things in a home, you know, we cannot just say to anybody, just keep coming to the house because you know, we don’t know who will you need. Look into the house. So, you know, we had to be very aware of, of, of safeguarding and things and, and so underpinning all of this that, that we do, we’re very, very aware of, eight things around safeguarding and that we always need to do that, that exceptionally well, because obviously be in the world of fostering, you see the results of when it is not done well and, and sort of you hear stories of children and things and where it hasn’t
00:34:34:05 – 00:34:58:04
Speaker 3
been done. Well, when, you know, you look back and think that should have been been picked up on. No, no, I’ve seen it. There’s stories of Christian sentiment in, in, in lots of places. And so we we’re very, very aware of that make sure that, that we sort of are always aware of that which I think everybody should be, this teenager, you know, but sadly it, it happens, but it but it isn’t.
00:34:58:04 – 00:34:58:16
Speaker 1
So, so.
00:34:58:16 – 00:35:23:05
Speaker 4
That’s bad experiences we’ve had is, is actually that’s an area that and I’m hoping not so much now but certainly in the past churches not being good at and my, my thoughts on that one is as the Christian church, we should be leading in this. Yeah. And setting, setting the, you know, the line in terms of inheritance, should we be dealing with all this stuff?
00:35:23:07 – 00:35:41:07
Speaker 4
And I guess for us, it’s, it is a little bit easier because we’re totally embedded in it because of the fostering experience. And, so for some it can be quite daunting, but we shouldn’t have any excuses. We should be leading in all the policies and procedures, safeguarding, etcetera, should be just like embedded into everything we do.
00:35:41:09 – 00:36:02:00
Speaker 4
And actually there’s loads of stuff out there in terms of templates and guidelines and stuff. So you don’t even have to start from scratch. You know, you’ve got access to it. We use we use places like stewardship. And also, what they call now 3131 eight women. What does one eight so he, she’s up to date with stuff.
00:36:02:00 – 00:36:09:16
Speaker 4
So all those things are really, really important. I can’t stress enough. Like I say, we need to be leading in it. Oh, yeah.
00:36:09:17 – 00:36:55:24
Speaker 3
Well, that’s another thing that I suppose sort of involves was that, the way we used to to run it was a bit more like, probably a traditional, small group with Bible study and and things. But we came to realize that sort of so for, 2 or 3 of the people that that came to, it was a huge challenge that, there was somebody who was, dyslexic, never told us, but, was this came quite obvious when they were, trying to read the Bible at night and, and sort of obviously pleased that they felt comfortable enough to do it, but, and, and actually as a oh, you’re not going
00:36:55:24 – 00:37:41:20
Speaker 3
to fully get what I’m talking about if I’m just using words. And so we started to use some godly play stories, which is, very visual and, and, quite interactive. And the difference was just incredible that the effects in the interaction with people and so now works developed into some code out of the box, which, led me to, basing the all the stories on in a box and, and, and the vast majority of the time thus being out of the box story that, I tell, people can, can really get involved in that and, and sort of ask questions because, one of the things that we definitely
00:37:41:20 – 00:37:52:04
Speaker 3
wanted to do was take it very interactive. There is no way that that I or anybody else can stand up and preach to people at home that’s not going.
00:37:52:09 – 00:38:14:23
Speaker 2
And and then that kind of leads back into the, the idea of overdoing stuff. And so as an give making sure you’re giving space to be, intentionally sensitive to the people that you’re with and listening to them and their needs, which is, is really great. And, and I realize time is where we’re getting very, very short on time.
00:38:15:00 – 00:38:41:23
Speaker 2
And so we’ve got to we’ve got a few minutes left, but there are, probably a couple more questions I’d really like to put to you. So the hard questions. Okay. Are you ready? And now that the first one is, I’ll give them both tips and you can reduce them as you as you wish. And what are your hopes for the future for our church and your your community?
00:38:42:00 – 00:38:54:05
Speaker 2
And then the other question, which is probably the harder questions, what would you say to others starting out? Or if there is some, if there are 2 or 3 pieces of advice? Yeah. What are your hopes and what do you say.
00:38:54:09 – 00:38:56:13
Speaker 4
You want to that one. And I’ll answer the second one.
00:38:56:14 – 00:39:19:06
Speaker 3
I think, our hopes are that we’d like to, to grow. Not because we want it to be a big, massive church for. For the sake of it. But, I’d like to see it grow organically, and I’d like to see it on stage where somebody has to say, actually, I could do this in my home.
00:39:19:08 – 00:39:24:04
Speaker 3
And then we could be helping to support, something to do that. Or we.
00:39:24:04 – 00:39:24:21
Speaker 1
Might even.
00:39:24:21 – 00:39:26:16
Speaker 4
Things like having another.
00:39:26:16 – 00:39:28:06
Speaker 3
Gradient.
00:39:28:08 – 00:39:30:13
Speaker 4
Cafe or another job or.
00:39:30:15 – 00:39:50:07
Speaker 3
A very perhaps even here, a different time. So you getting a different sort of targeted group because I’m aware that sort of, early evenings for, for families is, is quite, quite tricky. Especially if you’re a single parent, you know, don’t think so much more difficult. So although trying to find other ways in which we, we can connect.
00:39:50:07 – 00:40:12:18
Speaker 3
And so we’re actively sort of thinking and working away from that. But again, I don’t, I don’t we don’t put ourselves into this false pressure of saying, oh, you know, we could we have by this time next year and we’re going to be meeting 50 or wherever we, you know, it’s it’s sort of it’s trying to see how we can sort of build those connections.
00:40:12:18 – 00:40:32:18
Speaker 3
And I see lots of different opportunities and, and, and actually for us so that we get frustrated because, you know, I don’t even really a lot quicker. But, you know, we’re slowly realizing that. So it just works in its own time and actually sometimes that it’s really quick and other times it’s just incredibly slow, but actually there’s there’s a reason behind it.
00:40:32:18 – 00:40:43:11
Speaker 3
So I think that’s the real hope for us. Yeah. And the people will grow more in their faith that that sort of the people that we already have come at will just, just grow from.
00:40:43:11 – 00:41:14:20
Speaker 4
I think it’s not it’s it’s not just people growing in their faith, but people that we know of that are damaged because their faith experiences, probably churches. And it’s it’s wrong that they fix messes, that we help them find healing. Yeah. And and connecting with Jesus in a new way. And in terms of the second question, for us, so as a, as a, as a, as a couple that are not part of the denomination, the people starting out, if you were in a similar circumstance to us, really important to actually get people behind you.
00:41:14:22 – 00:41:39:16
Speaker 4
So obviously we, we are now registered charity and got trustees, but actually the people are trustees. We’re on the journey with us before they became our trustees. So so equal accountability structure there and and everything in place for you and looking after yourself. Self-care is really, really important. So really crucial as part of the journey. Good practice as we’ve mentioned.
00:41:39:16 – 00:42:04:21
Speaker 4
So from the beginning, be intentional about actually making sure that you do all the things that you are required to do when setting up something like a fresh expressions, stewardship, a brilliant, and I know fresh expressions have a relationship with stewardship. So they, they can happen on those kind of things. And then I think it’s just, I think, I think it is a calling.
00:42:04:23 – 00:42:24:23
Speaker 4
And I think you need to be in the community that you’re trying to reach. And if you can’t physically live in the community, then you have to find ways of being in the community. So actually joining in with what’s going on in the community, building friendships with people in the community so that you get embedded in that community.
00:42:24:23 – 00:42:41:22
Speaker 4
Because the number of people we know who don’t live in the community, they’re trying to make a difference in, and it just doesn’t work. But we’re not saying it’s not possible. If you’ve got a mentality where you call them and you get involved in the community on a day to day basis, but then just go back to your home afterwards, great.
00:42:41:22 – 00:42:48:22
Speaker 4
But if you’re trying to build something in a community to live in, you’ve got to live and breathe it basically, and live and breathe.
00:42:48:24 – 00:43:08:15
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I would say to people, you know, that always ask for permission that, you know, this there’s so many people that are waiting and waiting and waiting for permission, actually just just dots that you’ve been created prompting from that to just start something. But if you’re going to have to leave somewhere to do that, leave really well, yeah.
00:43:08:16 – 00:43:21:17
Speaker 3
Make sure that you you don’t assume right away that you’re not badmouthing anybody. Leave in the best possible way. If you have to be. Well, if not, but but talk to people, talk to whoever is.
00:43:21:19 – 00:43:34:13
Speaker 4
And if you leave, well, you can start. Well, yeah. If it involves leading somewhere to start a fresh expression. If you leave, well, you can start. Wow. And we can’t stress the closure is so, so important. You know.
00:43:34:15 – 00:44:04:12
Speaker 2
I have one final question, which is just a tidbit, type question. I realize, at the very beginning, you described yourselves as pioneers. And for some in the fresh Expressions movement, pioneers is a big scary word. For some people, it’s sort of like once they hear pioneer, they’re thinking of someone up on a pedestal who’s doing this great, great big thing.
00:44:04:14 – 00:44:11:21
Speaker 2
What? So what would you say to those folks who who might think of themselves as not necessarily pioneers?
00:44:11:23 – 00:44:17:10
Speaker 4
We’re just ordinary people doing what God calls us to do.
00:44:17:14 – 00:44:20:04
Speaker 3
Other and other people give us the label of pioneers.
00:44:20:04 – 00:44:45:03
Speaker 4
Yeah. The. Yeah, but we we literally just go about life here in our community. It’s a it’s just a natural process and a natural thing to do. And just keep it simple. Don’t complicate it. Being a pioneer is hard. It can be tough. It is is a lonely journey at times. But that’s where what I said earlier, having the people around you, making sure you look after yourself, all those things are in place.
00:44:45:03 – 00:44:54:03
Speaker 4
But in terms of like the question and the whole like how people see is we’re just ordinary people who just want to do what God’s called us to do.
00:44:54:07 – 00:45:15:15
Speaker 3
I think you’ll you’ll notice here, pioneer, because you’ve you’ve already had this inkling to start. Where is that things that, you know could be something very, very small. But, you know, it was always be that inkling there. And I would say, don’t be scared of actually, you know, if you’re not comfortable, don’t call yourself a pioneer. I don’t put that pressure and label on yourself.
00:45:15:17 – 00:45:19:15
Speaker 4
And I think that’s a beautiful thing is not actually, it’s not optional.
00:45:19:17 – 00:45:20:09
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:45:20:11 – 00:45:27:12
Speaker 4
I don’t have to go and do something massive to make a difference for God’s kingdom. Start small to start with one person. Yeah, baby.
00:45:27:12 – 00:45:34:16
Speaker 3
From me literally didn’t belong through life. I’m never one, and I literally have everything and and we are just it’s going.
00:45:34:18 – 00:45:35:05
Speaker 1
On in.
00:45:35:05 – 00:45:44:23
Speaker 4
Absolute chaos at times. That chaos no one day sustain. But we are just literally ordinary people. We just want to serve an extraordinary God.
00:45:45:00 – 00:46:13:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, I remember the last time we met up the Me session, the last thing that you said in closing, Nikki, was just do it. Just get on and do it. And not not to worry about all the stuff and all that kind of thing. Guys, thank you so much. You have been, fabulous. Thank you for, sharing your stories and giving us time.
00:46:13:13 – 00:46:32:20
Speaker 2
Be blessed. I’m sure people may have lots of questions that will come from this. Hopefully there there will be other conversations that’s that this will spark and others will be inspired by your story. And people will remember the fact that, yeah, it’s it’s it’s not we’re not super humans. We’re just normal everyday people just cracking on, just doing what we think God’s calling us into.
00:46:32:22 – 00:46:41:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. So bless you guys until we meet again, no doubt sometime in the future. But blessing and thank you.
00:46:41:23 – 00:46:48:05
Speaker 4
Thanks so much. Thank you. It’s not you guys. I.
00:46:48:07 – 00:46:50:02
Speaker 2
Hey. This.
00:46:50:04 – 00:46:51:09
Speaker 1
Hello.
00:46:51:11 – 00:47:06:07
Speaker 2
And so much good stuff. Wow. Yeah, much good stuff. What was there? Was there anything significant that stuck out, for you in that in, like, Neil and Nikki’s story and and that stuff.
00:47:06:09 – 00:47:34:21
Speaker 1
And, gosh, I’ve literally got like a whole, like, word map diagram because I was just like that when they were speaking. It was just incredible. But I think the first thing that really draws to mind is there was things that was like, incredible how they were much they resonated with us and our story. And I think, we talk about like the uniqueness and I and I think in each expression, particularly obviously in fresh expressions, I think sometimes it’s hard to deny with like that thread of God just through all these stories.
00:47:34:23 – 00:48:00:10
Speaker 1
And so, you know, they talked, Nikki talked a lot about like, people needing people when she said, you know, what she’d say meeting people. And I mentioned about pillars. Neal talked about not rushing and taking time to be and, you know, and just some really similar, the things that they mentioned and I love, I loved the idea when they talk a lot about leading.
00:48:00:10 – 00:48:30:17
Speaker 1
Well, and I noted down and they talked about leave well and start well and that’s, that was literally told to me by by the divisional leader of the Salvation Army in the southeast who, who’s technically like our boss in terms of order of things. But he said that to me with with teaching, but with everything we do, you know, so as we come into a chapter to end what we do with the church that we’ve been borrowing and renting with and sharing in, we’ve got to end well.
00:48:30:18 – 00:48:55:08
Speaker 1
You know, the things to start well, we need to end well. And it’s about having that. There’s grace in those moments. And I think that just they I get the sense of them and I don’t know them at all. So I get the sense that very thoughtful people, in the sense that they take time to do things they’re not, you know, they’re very reflective and listen and they’re really in tune to what they know.
00:48:55:08 – 00:49:21:10
Speaker 1
They their skills are and their strengths, but also into how God can best use them. And I think that obviously comes with years of life experience. But leaning into God and and trusting into those things, you know, that I shared parts of their story that they’ve not had, you know, easy steps, but they’ve really they really just lean into where God has stepped up and pulled them into and I yeah.
00:49:21:12 – 00:49:51:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, there was, there was I think it it really showed with their experience, you know, having over 15 years being in that area and then missionary work on top and how they talked about that missionary work sort of set themselves up. Because I think when you do missionary work and when he does sort of, Traditional mission work, as in go and do missionary work elsewhere as opposed to mission work in your current context.
00:49:51:06 – 00:50:13:24
Speaker 2
It there’s an act of sort of getting your head out of your own culture and injecting it into someone else’s culture. It forces you to listen to people. It forces you to consider that, you can’t just sort of go in and, and sort of take over into your own thing. You have to you have to listen to the people that you’re being missionaries to.
00:50:13:24 – 00:50:34:07
Speaker 2
I guess. And so in, in church ministry, that’s so vital. And how they talked about that, the stuff about, an issue when they’re talking about, not overdoing, but spending the time to develop the relationships, you know, so vital. So many people say, right, I’ve got this thing, I want to go do it, let’s go do stuff and then expect people to come to it.
00:50:34:07 – 00:50:40:08
Speaker 2
And then knowing comes to it because no one knows them and there’s no relationship. You know, I had said.
00:50:40:10 – 00:50:56:05
Speaker 1
We had a similar thing when we joined. People asking us kept saying they wanted us to start something, use a youth event, but we don’t. We haven’t got anything connecting. We know because we were young. I think they automatically just connect the dots and we turned some stuff down and everyone was like, why are you turning stuff down?
00:50:56:05 – 00:51:15:10
Speaker 1
You know, you want things to stop. And I said, no, youth are going to come. We don’t know any youth. We’re not connected to anything, you know? Now we’re building up relationships. We’ve started a partnership with Community Wardrobe. The schools were about to become mentors in the school. Through that, we will build relationships and if in the future that grows enough to start something for youth, it’s there.
00:51:15:10 – 00:51:52:21
Speaker 1
But you’ve got to have those relationships to build from that. And and new spoke a bit about the intent, you know, intention ality in terms of its culture. But I think that just speaks so true of church and fresh expressions today. And, you know, in conversation with friends and family who aren’t connected in to any form of church or Christianity, they quite a common thread is that a lot of them feel that it’s not very, intentional and it’s all very genuine and that, you know, they’re just there to for as a tick box as a number on a see that, you know, to feel it and to see they don’t ever feel like
00:51:52:21 – 00:52:16:17
Speaker 1
anything. There’s depth to anything. And I think, you know, fresh expression and that’s, you know, again, it’s only their experiences that they felt. But I think what fresh expressions encourages and teaches and shapes and nurtures us is to that being and not just doing, you know, we’re not. And it’s like Neil said, even with the food bank, you know, he’s not holding them to ransom over food.
00:52:16:17 – 00:52:36:00
Speaker 1
They’re not just a quick fix. They’re there to serve people, to give and to support. And if prayer and friendship and fellowship and discipleship comes with them through that, that’s just a sign of, you know, a witness to God’s light and love in their lives. And we can’t force people into it. That’s that’s clearly that model. Clearly hasn’t worked.
00:52:36:06 – 00:52:56:20
Speaker 1
You know, the the census statistics showed that that model of trying to force, force feed people, Jesus clearly hasn’t worked. We’ve got it. You know, we’ve got to get start being more intentional and just not being normal people and not holding ourselves above a pedestal, not holding ourselves above high the mighty in a in a building on a platform.
00:52:56:23 – 00:53:06:13
Speaker 1
We’ve got to be in our homes like Ark with people running with people, feeding people, serving people, eating alongside them, walking alongside them, just doing life.
00:53:06:15 – 00:53:34:07
Speaker 2
It’s it’s to me, the thing, the thought that’s coming up in that is and just the two different sides of community. So there’s this community, there’s genuine or kind of community that just happens through relationship. Right? You know, in that you spend time with people, you learn those people. And I use that language on purpose. You learn those people and how they work and how they are.
00:53:34:07 – 00:53:57:10
Speaker 2
You learn what upsets them, what makes them happy. And you, your how you you rebel for each other. But then this community that is like this, this almost corporate idea of like we must form community and community that bolsters and the yeah, they work. Yeah. The idea of community that, is, is this entity that’s almost autonomous to the people.
00:53:57:12 – 00:54:20:22
Speaker 2
And sometimes I think church can be this thing of like, well, we’ve got to be loyal to the community, to the institution community, rather than the verb community and the action of community. And if you don’t have that side, that action of community, all you’ve got is just a bunch of people meeting, and there’s no the relationship falls apart.
00:54:20:24 – 00:54:39:07
Speaker 2
And I think so that, that in addition, I think there’s themes that come through is that thing of like, yes, the Holy Spirit working through people, and the relationship and community. It’s, it’s yeah, you can have it just doesn’t seem to work. It all falls apart. Yes. Is missing.
00:54:39:09 – 00:55:02:04
Speaker 1
And they see it when you can’t. They know when we’re not being genuine. They’ll know when it’s not authentic and who we are. And real when and if it’s forced and well, we’ve got to get to a space where in that community and you’re so right with that being action, you know comes with that with honesty. We’ve got to start being real with each other and be honest, you know, stop trying to pretend to be perfect.
00:55:02:06 – 00:55:23:11
Speaker 1
Yes. You know, you know, it’s the age old question of are you really okay? And in a community we should be able to say, no, I’m not okay today. You know, we shouldn’t have to pretend to be anything other than. And I think, you know, a home setting, a small gathering builds up that foster. And if you if you can capture that DNA early enough, you know, hopefully it’s it’s that thing that.
00:55:23:11 – 00:55:24:05
Speaker 3
Will.
00:55:24:07 – 00:55:44:10
Speaker 1
Become infectious and spread as well as part of your culture because I think that’s what particularly I, you know, when I think about the younger generation, we work with a lot in terms of the Salvation Army, specifically on a wider sense with with the youth and young people, and they just want to bounce back, but they want authenticity.
00:55:44:10 – 00:56:04:18
Speaker 1
They want us to be genuine. They don’t want, anything other than and they want us to be able to say, I don’t know the answer. You know, I’m not perfect. I’m not God, I’m not going to. I don’t want to know the answer to the problem of evil or, you know, science versus God and all those things that we can share thoughts and opinions, but they don’t need us to know the answers.
00:56:04:18 – 00:56:25:01
Speaker 1
We shouldn’t know the answers in the church. We should. If somebody comes in and says, you know, what is my X and y Z die, you know, how is that fair to say? You’re right, it isn’t fair. I don’t know, but what I do know is that in that unfairness, God loves you. You know, we’ve just got to start to be more real and not trying to perfect health, you know, and fix things quickly.
00:56:25:02 – 00:56:33:15
Speaker 1
We’ve got to just walk with people and and love them. And that came to so evidently through these two that’s what they do that with people. They do life.
00:56:33:17 – 00:57:05:21
Speaker 2
It’s it’s yeah. We forget isn’t it. It’s just sometimes we forget the we can sometimes get religious, can’t we, in, in our busyness of doing the work and we forget, you know, it’s it’s easy to say is God’s God does this stuff. But it’s also remembering that I’ll say in, in those moments of pain and, and and angst and brokenness, God is doing the stuff, but he’s also coming and sitting with us in our little pit of despair that we’re sitting in that moment.
00:57:05:21 – 00:57:25:07
Speaker 2
And I love that picture. I remember again years ago when, when we were going through some stuff, a friends, saying that it’s like God’s the God he like when you’re sat there crying and broken or he’s sat there crying with us, you know, he’s sat there with his his arms around us saying, yeah, this is awful, you know, and I love you.
00:57:25:07 – 00:57:41:00
Speaker 2
And that’s awful. And it’s, it’s that stuff we sometimes miss of like, yes, but then God brings us out of that and helps us along that journey. But first and foremost, sometimes he’s just with us in that moment. And I think that’s so vital as well.
00:57:41:02 – 00:58:03:05
Speaker 1
And we have to capture that, too. One of the things that we’ve adopted this, particularly this in over the Christmas period, and in terms of really with our community life and our outreach, it isn’t doing today, but being with we’re not, you know, with anything, with us, with the community wardrobe, with the Christmas appeal, none of it. We’re not doing it to them that we’re with them and we’re joining in with them.
00:58:03:05 – 00:58:22:24
Speaker 1
So we change the way that it’s not like a hey, you go like charity type thing. It’s about them coming in, exploring it themselves, learning and growing. And that’s that model has come through, you know, through feeding that have, you know, because that’s not what we feel like life is like with God. We’re not it’s not do do do is with we.
00:58:23:01 – 00:58:38:09
Speaker 1
And it’s that same thing. And I love that Nicky mentioned is that, you know, joining in with God is doing that. And that’s another thread through this. You know, the similar echoes that, oh, I have a feeling we’re probably going to have quite a few of those where, you know, they there’s some similar echoes in all of our, in our stories.
00:58:38:09 – 00:58:46:00
Speaker 1
But yeah, yeah, such beauty and in their story and their, you know, their willingness to just say yes.
00:58:46:02 – 00:58:47:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. To just do.
00:58:47:20 – 00:59:09:07
Speaker 1
And to not be afraid to end things as well. I think that’s we don’t do that well as church. We don’t, we hold on to things sometimes too tightly and we’re very precious over. Oh, you know, but some, you know, man, we started Basin Sheen at work 90 years doing this. And we’ve got to continue that because that’s how legacy and all of this.
00:59:09:07 – 00:59:29:17
Speaker 1
So we’ve got to do these you know, they are you know Nella Nicky, that when they shared their story it was very evident that they are they know how to do things. And that is that’s piece where they said about ending. Well but they’re that’s part of life in ending those things. You know there is season when you know Scripture, you know, there is a time for everything.
00:59:29:17 – 00:59:49:02
Speaker 1
And I think we also have to know when there is a time to end things and that that isn’t that doesn’t diminish what God has done or what we got with God. But it’s about, in all things we can end well too, because that is in God, and we don’t have to stick at things to for it to be good or godly or churchy.
00:59:49:02 – 01:00:08:14
Speaker 1
We have to we we’ve got to we’ve got to get better at accepting when things have to be closed and done and say, right, okay. So we put that to bed with rest that we can grieve that if we’re sad about that, we can do that. But how do we now in take this time to to work out what needs to be birthed.
01:00:08:14 – 01:00:22:22
Speaker 1
You know, where is new life is where is the resurrection? Where are we going to see new life after this death? That’s the how. Excuse me? That’s the whole Christian story. There’s something that there’s new life. And if a thing ends, we not something new can come again.
01:00:22:24 – 01:00:23:14
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
01:00:23:20 – 01:00:32:03
Speaker 1
We’ve got to. We’ve got to get better of that. And I loved when they captured that. That’s such an important piece of advice for fresh expression and for church in general to hold and capture to.
01:00:32:03 – 01:00:55:18
Speaker 2
I think one of the other threads that I think is going to weave itself through, which I’ve sort of alluded to before, is there’s just not enough time to tell all these stories and give them give them the the true justice that they deserve and the true time that they deserve. But I think it’s always good to be in a place where you’re wanting more.
01:00:55:20 – 01:01:20:02
Speaker 2
And so, yeah, I’d encourage people and who might be listening that, if you have questions, you know, ask us, you know, put it to us. Yeah. These these podcasts will be going out through all our social media channels and stuff. So if you have questions for our guests who we’ve interviewed, you know, ask them and we’ll we’ll pass those questions on.
01:01:20:04 – 01:01:32:21
Speaker 2
But for now, we’ve got to wrap up this episode. So Beth, it’s been great. And as always, bless you. Until next time.
01:01:32:23 – 01:01:34:09
Speaker 1
Have a blessed week, everyone.
01:01:34:11 – 01:01:42:03
Speaker 2
Take care.
01:01:42:05 – 01:02:06:01
Speaker 2
On this episode, we’ve been listening to the amazing Neil and Nikki Goodwin. You can find them at Arc church.uk, and you can also follow them on their social channels. Which is our church UK also. And of course, if you want to follow us on the Shape podcast, you can find all the information for that on the Mission Shave podcast.com, which will bring you to the website.
01:02:06:03 – 01:02:06:21
Speaker 2
Thanks for listening.